Episode #0038 Authentic Social Media Networking with J. Kelly Hoey

0:37
Welcome everyone to another episode of The Productive Designer I have a special guest with me today I’ve been very fortunate to have lots of wonderful guests, and this guest will definitely not disappoint. I have Kelly, who we with me, who is she’s obsessed with changing the way that we understand and approach networking, she’s an author. Her book is bream network forging powerful relationships in a hyper connected world, Kelly has appeared on many different shows and has many accolades to her name, which I will put in the show notes, and let’s just bring Kelly on welcome Kelly.

Hey, thanks for having me fun to be here. This is great to have you I am really excited about talking about this topic today because I think, more than ever, right now with us being, you know online networking is a definitely different has a different lens than it has in the past, so they’ll tell us a little bit more about how you sort of got to where you are today,

1:27
well who knew that practicing law on, you know base Street and Toronto, get you here, new to being an author of a book on networking but my career started as a lawyer and, you know, for anyone knows that profession, you know for practicing or, you know have relatives or whatever who are lawyers, it’s sort of this profession where you have to invest a lot in what to say your skills development, a lot in client relationships, and a lot of time at your desk doing client work, and how do you balance those things so that you build the relationships because the only way to be successful in that profession is from client relationships, and just doing. And so, there’s an element of you can’t work, your head down and do the work but I practiced, and graduated law school back in 1991 So what was our technology, more Palm Pilots, maybe wasn’t even very early on in my career realize that you had this friction of you had to build relationships, but the work requirements meant you were often in isolation. And so how do you reconcile those two things. And so I began looking at networking differently. And I think a lot of people you pinpointed a lot of people are challenge right now, because we’re in this wholly digital world. But I think the challenge for some people, extends far before 2020 kind of pigeonhole what we believe networking is. Yeah, and they think it’s this transactional schmoozing conferences, coffee dating out your business cards. Yeah, business cards, cocktail party, you know, how do I chat with a stranger kind of thing. Yeah, rather than thinking, how would where am I interacting with people on a day to day basis. So if I go back to 1991 Kelly that was, you know, how was I interacting with people on a daily basis, I was sending email I was leaving voicemail, I was writing and sending memos, I was, you know, okay, so all of those touch points are in my mind, networking activities, chance to build start further enhance a relationship, and that kind of mindset has carried me through to now.

4:02
Yeah I can see it’s funny whenever I’ve watched legal shows, because that’s where I’ve got my legal knowledge. I watched that and I would think my god it’s so much is on sales for I’m using air quotes but sales, part of the business because you need to bring in those big clients. And yeah, to your point, I can’t imagine I mean obviously that’s why you have, I guess law clerks and juniors and whatever that are doing the grunt work but really when you move up the chain you’re no longer practicing really you’re just doing relationship building,

4:33
well you’re doing relationship building. So often, you’re not going to get a client to move, just on the basis of a single pitch. It’s sort of like, you have to liken it to football. Every once in a while someone wins a team wins again because of a Hail Mary, you know the quarterback throws the Hail Mary, but most of the time it’s a series of, you know, another three rounds. Another, another play and another, you know, few more yards and a few more yards. And so, how to show up every day and looking at the numbers of ways they encounter you I think is far more powerful than thinking, I’m going to swoop in once and dazzle them, and they’re going to move 15 years of relationship over to me.

5:24
It’s completely okay to even think that that kind of, no it really, really isn’t. So yeah, so we kind of touched on the COVID so how, like how are you seeing the poll, have you seen even let’s just say in the last five years because people were using, you know, we’re not talking business to business or, you know, using LinkedIn a lot, using social platforms of some sort, a lot more. Prior to the pandemic. So how have you seen the shift because you know you’ve been involved in this in a long time and, and how are we changing.

5:55
Well I think there’s a lot of people who have looked at, I want to say, digital virtual online networking, as the secondary or lesser less adequate form of networking, and I think they’ve thought that there’s different rules, or protocols that are etiquette that applies to me because it’s online, oh this is, this is my online persona or this is my, this is what I do online but this is who I am in person and somehow this, it’s not as real right like

6:29
it’s gonna say to city of right because you can curate that and you can craft it and you can spend hours writing the perfect two sentences,

6:37
but I think that’s the sort of mindset of this sort of digital thinking that’s not in real life, and what we’ve realized since 2020 is it’s like it is, it is real life. And if anyone wonders if I’m New York City, wherever you are, you’re here we go. There you go, authentic, authentic, authentic, you know, voices in New York. Hey Kelly Where are you, well I can’t hide bad at this point. Yeah, so, but I’ve been advocating for some time, it’s not one or the other. Human beings are using all the tools at our disposal to connect with each other, and there is a digital first generation. And then there’s a generation that is rapidly adopting the digital at a faster speed than the digital generation. We think that the digital generation was also the generation that brought us co working spaces and maker spaces and, you know, all of those things because they wanted to figure out how we can get together in person. Again, whereas, you know, the analog generation the boomers and beyond. And you know probably Gen X part of my generation, they have been the fastest adopters because you know what other kids with grandkids what you know like, Oh, if I want to write. So, at some point there had to and I’ve been saying there’s somewhat there had to be some kind of a coalition, where we just realized, this is how we connect and communicate and maybe that’s what 2020 is given us is a chance to realize like, oh, there’s a multiple of tools. It’s not one or the other, it’s both, we need to be amphibious in how we move between these and how we need to use all of these in our networking toolkit to connect with other people, the people who I believe are going to be successful in our world going forward, are those who can build relationships online and take them offline, and those who know how to maintain and enhance their analog or analog relationships, their analog relationships in the digital world, because they need to do both. Yeah, they influence each other. And one of the things I talked about in my book, build your dream network is, I don’t look at digital spaces, any differently than I look at, in real life spaces. So you mentioned LinkedIn. Yeah, LinkedIn, reminds me of a Law Society of Upper Canada event really now okay so explain that. I feel I gotta put a suit on, I need a certain context in terms of how I talk what information I share what information I want to receive. I feel like I’m going to be a suit, again, when I’m on LinkedIn,

9:26
right. I really feel like that because I feel like it’s changing a little bit like I feel like I’m definitely seeing more stuff that is more personal, more human than than it was.

9:36
I think there’s much more personality in it, I think there’s much more banter, but I don’t want to see what someone chose to wear or what they’re eating on LinkedIn. So that’s what I mean by the context, you know, the banter that you see in the comments I think of that like the hallway banter if we were attending a big conference. Okay, I wanted around the conference, you know, or I wanted around that context of that information, not like there’s other places for that personal kind of conversation so I said, share with people, I think of LinkedIn like the office or the professional industry conference or association, you know Facebook I, you know, when I was on it I would think of it like friends and family. Yeah, how you gather around the Thanksgiving table. Okay, and then Twitter’s the grand cocktail party, how are you good guest, and then how about Instagram. That’s, that’s an interesting Well it’s kind of a combination of things. You know, it’s kind of a mixed use because even when people have used it, and I’m thinking, interior designers have been extraordinarily good at using Instagram with the visuals of the properties, the real estate but design, but when they’ve inserted. Personal like they took a dog to work one day, that’s when they’ve seen engagement go up, so I can sort of feels like you kind of, I don’t know, it’s driving like driving a standard car you know you got to get both pedals go in there.

11:06
I get that. That’s funny. Yeah, it’s funny I used to be on Twitter and then I haven’t been on it in years, and I hate to say this but like did Donald Trump like like give life back to Twitter or has Twitter always been. It’s funny, like, people are talking more about Twitter again, whereas I felt like it kind of went away.

11:24
Yeah, it kind of, it lost, it lost some of the joy. That’s probably the best way of putting it got very marketing. Okay, I got very lost the conversation because originally. I’ve been on since like 2008 2009 was pretty early on, and I looked at it and you could based on hashtag you could find other people who were talking about the same things you were and you could see what they were talking about and, and then you could enter into conversations with them so I feel particularly as a woman, that it enabled us to be invited into like networking rooms that were otherwise previously close to us, and I’ll, I’ll give you an example on that. Okay, yeah, I was like, great how thinking about Twitter like the cocktail party you can find conversations of interest, and then you bring your human networking, you know, kind of attributes, not you know marketing attributes you bring your human attributes, and you follow, and you listen and you engage, And if you’re the good guess you get invited back or people want to interact with you. So you and I recording this conversation and luckily we’re doing it on Zoom and we got video and so we can see each other. Yeah, just like the way you just said yep or the way you’ve nodded when I’ve made comments. How is it like or retweet, any different than those physical nodding are saying yeah I agree with you, it’s not so if we start looking at those technology kind of features of a social networking site say what is, if I was standing and talking to someone, what’s the human equivalent of that. Yeah, why wouldn’t we use it that way so you want the example I always use is the foreword to the paperback edition of my book was written by Tom Peters best selling author who wrote In Search of Excellence best selling business book for 40 years he’s written like 20 books, prolific writer management speaker before Twitter where would I have a dialogue with talk. I don’t know like a book signing where I’d be some sort of bonding sinker fan, and it would just be really awkward. Yeah 10 seconds of his time and yeah hey Mr Peters you’re really swell like nicely signed a book and like be like, carry on, like, you know, Another crazy other book signing center away right. We gathered around conversations on Twitter regarding management and corporate governance and board diversity, and had banter back and forth. And then, you know, next thing I know I got a mentor, a friend, someone who offered to write the foreword to my book has been a massive champion of mine. And by the way, we’ve tweeted at each other for probably going on 10 years now. We’ve had a few phone calls, I’ve had the joy of interviewing him twice, and we’ve met once in person. That’s amazing. Yeah, it was perfect and when we met in person it was no different than our banter on Twitter, except we had more than 280 characters.

14:37
Exactly,

14:38
a limited amount. That’s amazing. So what, like why do we have such a hard time networking why we find it such a challenge and I think first of all, I mean I think just to, I think our mindset is exactly what you were talking about at the beginning is, you know, we’re at the cocktail party and we’re going in for the hurt sell or we’re gonna pass out our card and we’re, you know, it’s the fake schmooze II stuff so yeah, get that aside and then we actually get down to the nitty gritty of what what makes it so difficult for people.

15:05
Well I think there is that element of the One and done like if we don’t nail this person right now, we’re in rather than looking at every encounter as a chance to start, or further a relationship like it’s not, if you don’t get the deal or if you don’t like why can’t it just be the start of a relationship. The first time you meet someone, I think, so there’s, there’s that element to it, but the basic thing is networking is hard because you got to deal with human beings. And we’re weird,

15:34
yeah. Oh yeah. It’s true right because you you, I mean when you’re chatting with somebody, it can be all of a sudden you’d be like, Oh that was a great conversation was so easy, it flowed. And then there’s other times you start talking to somebody and you’re like, Okay, I gotta get myself out of this conversation like quickly because this is awkward and it’s not going anywhere. And so you just kind of know you don’t have a rapport with that person,

15:55
and then you find out later that they thought you were the most interesting person on the face of the earth and they’re looking forward to talking to you later. And the person that you have a great conversation with you follow up with them and they act like they’ve never heard of you before. Yeah. And, yeah, like we think of yourself on any given day of the week, we are nice needs, desires, wants change. Yeah, probably hourly, daily. Yeah, so you’re always having to factor in like, you know, how can how can I listen, observe and understand this other person who is, you know, at any given point, got different needs, wants, and desires.

16:34
Exactly, and you don’t know what just happened to them an hour before they arrived at this conference or, or what’s happening in their life or whatever, right,

16:41
right, and you know, we tried so much anxiety into one interaction, that when we don’t hear from someone you think oh my god it’s us. Maybe it’s them. I know.

16:54
It’s like flipping it you got to flip it, you got to flip the narrative and sometimes go you don’t know what’s going on in their life right and then you automatically, or I guess our innate instinct is to go if something’s wrong with me, you know, what’s, Why did they get back to me and it’s got to be me and yet, yet you don’t know what’s happening right they look at some humanoid huge project that’s on the go and overwhelmed. You know, I mean I’m guilty of reading the email, and as soon as it’s, you know, gone far enough down my screen and it’s not in my boot like forget right life gets.

17:22
So, or I had a situation years ago so you know how nice and warm our computers get. So I had a cat who really loved that. Oh, nothing better than sticking this little chan on Mac keyboard, one time and like were my emails. Seriously, like just sat on it long enough to delete, delete, delete, delete, and then it must have been like, do you want to permanently delete these things and, you know, the cat was like, Yeah, let’s do that too. And I remember thinking, and then I thought to myself, What’s really important. And it’s like the new version of my dog ate my homework, right, my cat deleted my, you know, rather, anxious, neurotic about it, or rather than getting kind of uppity and kissing. Just, you don’t know. So yeah, send a card of communication that you would like to receive. And having that empathy and being open to understanding. The first time I said this, someone said to me, what’s the trick to networking I’m like a jerk. You want to networking hack Don’t be a jerk like don’t send email but if you received it you would, you know, flip the bird off at someone, and yeah, because you don’t know, maybe, maybe they’re sick, maybe a family member sick maybe the cat deleted their emails.

18:56
I’m gonna use that one. I love it. What are some of the mistakes people make with networking like what, what do you see is kind of a common phone call, or, you know,

19:06
blunder that people do. If you were to correct one thing, and I actually think this is one really big thing and it in my mind is the biggest networking mistake, it’s a failure to follow up, or follow through. Okay, so I think it’s networking courtesy like someone agrees to meet you for say a zoom coffee date to just thank them right like hey thank you very much for taking that meeting with me. That’s just common courtesy. Absolutely. But what’s the communication said after that. And the number of people. Well, shocking and deploring the number of people who don’t send the first email, not to send the second one and more the third one, have a zoom, day, and someone gives you some information, you’re like, Thank you for taking the meeting appreciated your advice. Let them know what you did with the advice. Did you read the book did you apply the information did you follow up on the job leave they recommended you to, you know, fix your cover letter did you tell them what you did. And let’s just reach back out. No, you suggest today that this revised, you know, my, my resume, applied for some new roles and you’re right, I got a whole lot more hits thanks to your advice, I’ll keep you posted on my job search, period, you don’t have to ask them for another coffee date you don’t have to let them know, because people who give their time willingly, like they do that because they want to they want to help other people. And the way that they continue to want to help you is if you just let them know that you actually use their advice, how not to here’s, okay,

20:45
if I had an instance where I reached out to I work with a lot of builders and developers, that’s pretty much my, my niche that I work in, and I’ve been very fortunate that over the 1820 years, I’ve really haven’t had to cold call, it’s been very much referral based and, but I have you know started reaching out a bit more to some, some builders that I haven’t worked with before and sort of a wiser refer to that you know a warm lead somebody introduced me, sent a little note, you know, did some research on them referenced a project that they’re that’s coming up, you know, wondering if you can, you know, facilitate an introduction to the like the marketing manager who would be more who I’d be in contact with, and radio silence and then I followed up another one just Hey, just wanted to make sure this didn’t get in your you know last year Mail. Where do you once, I mean, I’ve obviously given up on that. But if I were to reach out to them again in numbers, maybe right now. I’m busy. Nothing that that is relevant for me right now. God, whatever, like how I think there’s this first interactions is good but then when it’s been, you know, six months or four months like what are what are your some tricks or tips or advice on how that sort of dynamic relationship without a feeling like hide even more from you. Exactly.

21:59
Particularly, we had a warm intro. The person who made the warm intro, I was letting them know what happened. Now, that’s part of follow through that I would always do. By the way, I’ve emailed so when I hear back from that might be a situation that so and so a couple of times, didn’t hear anything. You know I’m gonna see what’s going on with them if there’s any, you know insights or color, you could add just they may go, oh yeah, it’s been sick it’s anything and physios, whatever. And that’s, That’s why, but that person made that initial warm intro, this is where they want to know what’s happened because they may have made have done a whole bunch of networking favors to this guy. And they, or gal company, and so they may have been like, yo, yo, we won. or they may be, you know, they may be like whoa like that is really out of character what’s going on, let me find out and I’ll get you back some more information, so look that original like that let that person know because they may add some color and stuff to it and then the other piece on this one is, yeah, I mean reach, this is like, Thank God for like Google Alerts and things and social platforms in this sense is that you know you can kind of be like that good internet stalker, you can find information, because maybe there’s something about their company, maybe there’s a new project you’ve been awarded, you know, maybe you see that they recent some industry, is there some other say well it’s been ages since we talked and saw on LinkedIn that you were just granted you know whatever congratulations whatever if there’s no the opportunity for me to work with you or pitch you again. I mean, obviously love to have it but the purpose of this communication is. Yeah.

23:43
Yeah, it’s funny because it’s those initials are sort of easy but then it’s like, you know the, we will keep you in mind, we don’t have anything right now and if something comes up and then you want to kind of keep going back to them but without sounding desperate.

23:58
Another way to go back to them is to if there’s other projects you’ve worked on in the interim, that would be parallel to the type of work you want to do with them. Just to say hey since we last talk. These are some of the projects that I have worked on here’s where you can, you know, assuming it’s publicly available, or someone to visually see what the work is is uh here’s you know, here’s some of the things that I’ve done this one in particular would look like, looks like, you know, might have been something that would have been up your alley in terms of me looking at what you’ve done before and I just wanted to keep you posted on my portfolio of work and I’m optimistic that something will come out for the future that we’ve worked together.

24:39
So how do we like disconnect without losing momentum as far as I don’t want to be hounding, but we don’t want to like where’s the fine line of kind of trying to keep that relationship going. If there’s not, if it’s not reciprocal I guess well things are cyclical,

24:55
you know where you can file those really think of this in the in the digital world where you have so many social media gurus were like, You need to know you need to post five times a day and you need to do this, you need to do that mine you need to as you need to be generous and considerate and human, and you need to be adding value to other people and adding value doesn’t mean that you were, you know, a megaphone for your own, you know fabulousness all the time, right. Yeah. And I think if you are present and you’re authentic when you’re on social channels, and you’re truly human. Then you can log out and not have anything to worry about. In that sense, when I think of a friend of mine who’s an independent filmmaker photographer based in Paris, Elena Rossini 2019 Yeah, she was off. Social for over a month because she got married, and she came back and all her followers on Twitter were like, it was the wedding. Good to see you. Yeah, She didn’t lose followers. It wasn’t some catastrophe. Her work in her business and she gets. She’s a case study my book she gets like 90% of her business leads because of Twitter. Yeah. And so, it’s all on how she uses it, and that sort of authenticity and really highlighting the work of other people, as opposed to, hey, hey, hey right kind of sad. Yeah, and there was no ramifications. There was no detrimental ramifications for her completely stepping off social for over a month. How do

26:42
you see is a is a happy balance because we’re all, you know, predominantly, my audiences, independent business people, or small business owners where we’re wearing 17 different hats at a time, and social media can be just yet another I have two on my list of things to do, you know, they’ll say we should spend a day of your week or whatever marketing and everything like where is that sort of fine line up where you think it’s being effective, but it’s not. Because sometimes I really don’t know how, how effective social media is like. Again, it’s this double edged sword for me. So,

27:15
here’s how here’s how I think about it is, In many ways, social media is the best listening to you have for what your industry what your clients what your potential clients are thinking about caring about who’s complaining about what’s their news, what’s happening about them because that’s where the news and information breaks first, And so, in many ways is you know, the awareness of what’s on those platforms, how they work, how your client base is using them. And in using it in that listening, observing research trends in many ways that’s its highest and best use equally highest and best use is, are you think about first impressions. It’s someone recommending you or talking about you. And the room that we’re someone may kind of affirm that first impression or solidify that first impression is because they plunk your name in a Google search. And then what shows up, probably your website, your LinkedIn, and your Twitter as a probably the first things that show up. So, the second element and sort of its highest and best view says, well this is reaffirming affirming solidifying a reputation. How can I make sure I have the strongest, and how to make sure there’s not a disconnect between what my great mentor and friend says about me and never wasn’t discovers online, right, and that’s an SEO play. Yeah. I’m not saying Oh, you got to post. But if somebody, there’ll be a network and said, if someone is looking for you. You know, what are you networking out to the world. So use those, those are when I think of a business owner use them in those ways. And then thirdly it’s like if you’re Chataway online, you know, be there, be authentic and they do it when you have something to say and show as much, and engage, what other people is graduating worrying about who is going to go viral, money, or which vanity metric, am I going to get all wrangled up in today like here. So, yes,

29:39
so we just have so it’s such a quantitative, at least two years ago when advertising was you put a billboard you put a newspaper ad you put a whatever, you didn’t have that like instantaneous feedback of whether it was good or bad or indifferent, you know, it was months of okay well that ad went out here and and now we see some sales increase so it must have been, you know like the track that we have at our hands now is, it’s almost too much a timeframe you can, as you call it the vanity metrics like it can, it can make you crazy.

30:11
So, what are your clients, what use it as a research tool. Use it in a way that you understand that if someone said oh my god you got to go and talk to Crystal She’s fabulous. And they all have a Google search or they walk across the Florida cocktail party,

30:29
they’re like,

30:32
are those parts of your network, or are they enhancing, you know, what do you want to be sound for the words want sent your way. Yeah,

30:42
so it’s almost like the, the, solidifying your brand with your brand and making sure that all the pieces that you put out there are authentically you and what you’re about and who you are and what

30:55
business do you do right what like why, why, you know, kind of losing networking in the network building opportunity because I don’t know your LinkedIn profile doesn’t have a headshot, and no one has any knowledge of how to find you because you buried your contact information on your website. Recommendation perfect person for you don’t make the introduction. I’m just doing research first. No,

31:24
right, let’s

31:26
just look at a part of me as you can call it a personal brand, I always say personal brand or your branding, particularly an individual company is based on what your network tells you is how you behave and how you engage as opposed to something that you quickly find strapped for time, and he was my mindset, my, my approach on this, you know, goes back to where we started this conversation. Being a lawyer, having to build ours, not having time, but knowing I had to build relationships. So, how can the information. Other people find what I’m recommended, how can it, you know, affirm that I am the one for the job, can they reach me easily when we do exchange information, you know, do they kind of still is it all adding up to something that when they finally do meet me, they’re like, Oh wow, yeah, this was a great person, this was, this was like.

32:21
So in summary, you’d basically say, Like make sure your website is current and, you know, is portraying you in the way that you want. Obviously contact information being easy to find, you know what you’re discussing online as you know is is a permanent sort of record of who you are and what you’re about and what your thoughts are and yes I’m very conscious about not making any political statements like I’m pretty conscious of that, obviously right now, it’d be so easy to do. But you know just any of that stuff where it’s just that double checking of, you know, once you press you know sin it’s up there and it’s kind of already there for the world.

32:58
I think we’re gonna go keep going back to Little League. It was a partner, a law firm, and he says, oh, you know, sort of that arrogance of, you know, private equity, m&a is like oh I don’t need to be on Twitter, no one no one, no one who matters, like, my business is there. I’m like, Oh really, really, I should give me a couple of names or some of your clients, and let’s see what else. Yeah, so the next day I sent him like an email with 75 Twitter handles. There was his clients there was some of the people that they followed who seem to be similar types of private equity and hedge funds and other asset class kind of similar asset class. I said, and then here’s all the competitor firms who had those practices who were also on Twitter and had accounts and I said, I did 30 minutes of research. Did you want me to do some more. Can we just say that, you know maybe it’s good I mean maybe I won that argument. Yeah, like, you know, like point Kelly. And, yeah, the point is is kind of like, no you don’t need to be sitting there tweeting all the time and you don’t need to listen to that garbage advice of oh you need to tweet five times a day and you need to do this and you need to do that. But you need to be aware of who’s out there and you need to make an active choice in terms of missing kind of having, having a piece of your networking opportunities like like ignoring you know and again goes back to, Again, I think for for time starved individuals, business owners typically are, you know what, think of it as part of your research on your clients know and if you do Google alerts on your prime clients or potential clients or prospects, it’ll pull up their tweets and everything else. This is a good stocking on the internet,

34:54
productive stocking.

34:58
Stocking well I mean there’s just, I find it’s such a, it could be sort of a daunting and overwhelming, and then looking at it I guess I’ve never really, I think I had these in two different silos to be honest I think I had networking in one silo and social media in another silo and, you know, not sort of, I mean this conversation is giving me such a good perspective of what that is, even though I know that it was kind of there like I know it’s just, you know, awareness top of mind, blah blah blah. You know, commenting, so that you’re continuing but I never sort of looked at that was associated with networking. So, what were you thinking,

35:36
you know, seven touch points to a sale, but you know back in the day, you know, kind of, Zig Ziglar or whatever it’s like yeah, what is that gonna be, you know, seven lunches before you met you know, seven coffee date seven, you know steak dinner, communication, could lead to a voicemail that’s a retweet, that’s repost that’s a comment that so, you know, with all of those things and next thing you know everything, small business owner, you know, your networking Arsenal What’s your email signature, you know, do you have the links in there, or is it showing who you are, maybe you’ve got a quote that gives an impression, or a link to some media where you’ve appeared or maybe you’re like hey, our latest work is featured in and that’s in your email signature line. You will soon join as part of your networking arsenal. Your influence as part of your networking arsenal, You know if you got a business that’s, you know, got an answering, you know, answering service, how they treat customers is part of your networking Arsenal because any kind of disconnecting that chain affects the relationship with the individual, for sure.

36:53
Absolutely. Oh my gosh,

36:55
this is great i This is like, I think it’s just giving me such a different perspective on how I’m looking at posting, even from the podcast and like just, it’s I think you because it’s great, no doubt it really hasn’t made me go. You know, it’s those aha moments,

37:16
liberating as well, because there’s more chances to connect with people, and more. By sort of micro networking actions as I like to do. And I think going full on most of it will be even more credit. This past year, I do want to be decision makers, purchasers of your services people who need to interact with. Cool, for whatever reasons may never come out from behind a screen. So there’s so many people like, oh I can’t go back to the normal and we can, We can go and good conferences and stuff again. Some keynotes decision makers, people are gonna be like, I want to do that like I want to end up in an ICU with a gym down my throat, you know,

38:18
thank you very much. Yeah, because we’ve definitely seen how did that, How we can do things differently now.

38:26
We’ll use the example of like various meetings I’ve had them saved me a minimum of an hour for a minimum of an hour of my day by not having a meeting. Before I need to be on the call and so I think to your point, our human behavior, definitely, I would say I’d love to see what they’re gonna write about, you know, this sort of the social this pandemic will change, like change, everyone and how willing, I think we’re a part of it, experiment.

38:58
Really, a Twilight Zone episode and someone’s gonna come out and tell us to analyze to get the result

39:06
that conspiracy theorists social experiment we want to see how this was gonna do. Yeah, I, yeah it’s crazy, and that can go into so many different discussion topics on on how this is going to affect us good, bad or indifferent, but we will go there because we don’t have all big. So I want to ask you some of my interior acquisition questions, just ask all my guests at the end of every episode. What is one thing you think

39:30
every person should experience in their lives, regret, and I say this sooner sooner. Better than later and analyze why you have the lack so you can make better choices going forward. The mistakes or failures, learn from them, and how your choices affect other people and what that impact is and then say right. Let me have clarity so in the future, how I make my choices so I don’t have to experience this again. What’s the wisest thing that you’ve ever done. I don’t have a plan B, mentor and a friend and he said, consider if you’re focusing on plan B, you’re not executing planning. That’s very good. Yeah, it’s like, failure is not an option right.