Episode #0046 Learn how to focus with “Focusologist” Penny Zenker

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson chats with Focusologist, Penny Zenker. 

Penny is, an international speaker, business strategy coach, and best-selling author of the book “The Productivity Zone” which was an instant Amazon Best Seller. And her TEDx, “The Energy of Thought”, has gained attention around the world. She is featured on NBC News, Forbes, Inc, ESPN, and Wharton Business Radio among others.

In this episode, Crystal and Penny discuss how we need to bring awareness to life and works’ distractions or how and why we lose focus. Penny explains how can we start to take steps towards being more focused. And being more intentional with where and how we direct our attention. 

Crystal believes habitual change is tough, and it is going to take a real effort to make these changes happen. 

What is a “Focusologist”?

Penny explains what a Focusologist is, it is someone who focuses is on the right things at the right time. It is someone who studies and practices the art of controlling and directing the energy of our thoughts, our feelings, and our actions to produce a positive, meaningful result. At the simplest, it’s the art of studying how to focus so that we get the results that we want. 

She emphasized that humans are a thousand times more driven away from pain than we are towards pleasure. Where, avoiding the pain by doing almost anything other than what we are supposed to do.

Crystal asks how Penny works and what are methods she uses to help people to stay focused. Penny mentioned that the first step is awareness. She has a distraction quiz. Where she invites everybody to take a look at. And find out whether they’re a squirrel or a time zombie. What the quiz meant to do is to create that heightened awareness as to what’s distracting us. People should be aware that we’re being distracted. And, that we’re impulsively behaving in a certain way.

Listen in on this episode where Crystal and Penny talked about the ways how to focus and be a little bit more productive. And, “Do something today that your future self will thank you for”. And learn to notice what your triggers are for losing focus. 

How to reach Penny:

Website: pennyzenker360.com I LinkedIn: pennyzenker I Facebook: PennyzPerspective

Mentioned Resources: Distraction quiz

Books Productivity-Zone-Stop-Tug-Time by Penny Zenker and Ruthless-Elimination-Hurry-Emotionally-Spiritually by Jon Mark Comer 

Penny Zenker on TPD episode how to focus

Recommended podcasts: Tim Ferriss and Brene Brown

Episode #0045 TPD Chats with Phyllis Harbinger the author of The Interior Design Productivity Toolbox: Checklists and Best Practices to Manage Your Workflow

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson interviews fellow interior design professional and author, Phyllis Harbinger. 

Phyllis is an Interior Designer, Educator, Strategist, Speaker, and Author of the Interior Design Productivity Toolbox. She has owned and operated her award-winning boutique firm, DCI Studio, for almost 30 years. Serving the luxury residential market.

In this episode, Phyllis shares the story of how she came to writing her book. It all started when she was in a mastermind class. And her mentor challenged them all to create an evergreen product. Then she thought about the budgeting tool and checklists she had created. It could become an evergreen product, and it did.

Crystal and Phyllis move the conversation to discuss the best methods for scaling a business. Phyllis points out that we all live in a very different world now. One that allows us to work remotely, and therefore the ability to hire part-time or “fractional” is very easy to do. This allows small business owners the flexibility and freedom to hire. Without having the responsibility of a full-time employee especially when you’re starting out.

Phyllis shares her best hiring practice. As an Educator she has an advantage she likes to call her “secret sauce”, and that is to hire through her class.  She gets to really know who the students are. As a Teacher, she gets first-hand knowledge of their work ethic. Their personality traits, and their unique brilliance. She sees all that because she is interacting with them on a regular basis. And she learns of their capabilities. And nine out of 10 times, they exponentially show more than anticipated.

Phyllis and Crystal briefly touch on fee systems. Phyllis’s preferred method is a substantial design fee for the conceptualization and creative services portion. And then her DCI Studio team move into purchase management. DCI Studio keeps all of their client’s credit cards safely password-protected. Using their cards to make purchases on their clients’ behalf. A “Purchase Management” fee is then added on which allows for complete transparency. And worrying about her clients “shopping” her.

So join Crystal and Phyllis as they discuss her book, ideas on scaling and managing an interior design business. Then, “Do something today that your future self will thank you for.” and pick up Phyllis’s book.

 How to reach Phyllis:

Website : phyllisharbinger.com  I  Instagram : phyllisharbinger   I Facebook : DCIStudio

Phyllis Harbinger as guest in the episode titled TPD Chats with Phyllis Harbinger the author of The Interior Design Productivity Toolbox

Recommended podcasts: Deepak Chopra

Recommended books: Get A Grip by Gion Wickman & Mike Paton, Traction by Gino Wickman 

Episode #0044 Design Package Options for Working with Contractors, with Mehnaz Malik

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson strategizes with fellow interior design professional Mehnaz Malik.  

In this episode, Mehnaz is interested in learning about Crystal’s relationships with Builders and Contractors. And how she charges for her services. Crystal provides insight, explaining how having a different design package available is a great option for both the Contractor and the Client. These packages are priced based on the scope of work and level of design involvement. 

Mehnaz & Crystal also chat about how to discuss budgets with Clients.  This can sometimes be a challenge for many Design Professionals. A design package option to consider is working with a project total instead of showing an itemized list. This can be helpful when working within an overall budget.  Some clients prefer to know exactly what they are paying for each item. While other clients are okay as long as the budget is met. 

So, join Crystal and Mehnaz as they discuss ways to approach money, budgets, and contractors. Then, do something today that your future self will thank you for. And try some of these suggestions for yourself.  

How to reach Mehnaz:

Website – www.nataridesign.com

IG: @nataridesign

Mehnaz Malik as guest on TPD episode Design Package Options for Working with Contractors

Recommended podcasts: Paloma Contreras podcast

Episode #0043 TPD chats with Liv Pod Creator & Interior Design Professional Lisa Kooistra

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson interviews fellow interior design professional and Liv Pod creator, Lisa Kooistra.  

Crystal and Lisa discovered that they essentially have been living parallel lives with Crystal being a few years ahead of Lisa. However, there is one major difference. While Crystal’s husband is also a contractor, she does not work with him on a regular basis or really at all. Lisa on the other hand, work regularly with her contractor husband Ryan Kooistra of York Renovation Design. She and her husband do residential home renovations. 

Lisa cut her “interior design teeth” working for several successful design firms gaining lots of interior design experience. After years of working for different interior design firms, she and her husband both decided it was time to start their own businesses. 

While looking for an alternative for a home office, Lisa and her husband decided to design a self-contained unit. What they call a “Liv Pod”. The pod is located in their backyard, and it has heat, electricity, and more. The pod s connected to the main house for all electricity. It was the perfect solution to still be able to work from home while also having a separate space. The Liv Pods are available for all types of uses. And she has found that even start-up salons have found the perfect solutions to their office problems. 

So, join Crystal and Lisa as they chat about Lisa’s similar experiences to Crystal’s. What Lisa is doing to create new flexible spaces for starting businesses. Do something today that your future self will thank you for. And look into getting a pod for your business.   

How to reach Lisa:
Website – lkdesigns.ca      I      livpods.ca

TPD chats with Liv Pod Creator & Interior Design Professional Lisa Kooistra

Recommended podcast – The Decibel

Episode #0042 – Strategy coaching call-what is your differentiator?

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson coaches fellow Interior Design professional Michaela Donato to help make her business better. 

This week’s episode is all about strategy coaching with Michaela’s business and what insight Crystal can give to take her to the next level. Crystal will go over flat fees versus hourly pay, marketing, differentiating your business, and attracting the right clientele. Crystal asks Michaela open and honest questions about her style. And what her current strategy is to find the best ways to help her. 

For Michaela, the main takeaway is learning how to set yourself apart from other Designers. For example, if you were in a room with one hundred other designers, what would do you do that no one else would raise their hand for? What makes you special? What could be the difference between someone choosing you or another designer? This could be your love for being environmentally friendly. Your keen eye for good antique pieces. Your use of bright colors, or your ability to adjust to someone’s lifestyle. There could be so many different key factors that could set you apart from others, and it is important that you know what that is. 

Crystal and Michaela also discuss design fees,  flat-fee versus hourly. In this episode Crystal touches on the fact that everyone has to start with a lower fee due to being new to the craft. But as your experience grows your prices need to grow too. When it is time to increase your rates, you can inform your current clients that your prices will be increasing as of a particular date. Notifying your existing Clients will make them aware that you are more experienced and therefore more valuable. This will also inform current clients that anyone they refer to you will be paying a different price. In some cases, the current clients who are used to paying a smaller fee may agree to pay more to get more value from your work or not. Either way, you will be paid your worth. 

So, join Crystal and Michaela as they explore different ways to grow her business through this strategy coaching. Then, do something today that your future self will thank you for. And determine what makes you and your services different from other Interior Design professionals.

How to reach Michaela:

Website : donatodecor.com 

Michaela Donato as guest in TPD episode titled Strategy coaching call-what is your differentiator?

Recommended podcasts:

Happier, The School of Greatness, The Daily Shine 

Episode #0041 Women empowerment with 19th & Co.’s Christine Woodward

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson is joined by fellow interior designer Christine Woodward. 

Christine is the owner of 19th & Co where she helps her clients transform their company into the next phase of growth by helping with strategy, implementation, and execution. She also has a team of skilled consultants behind her that allow her to work with almost anyone wanting to grow their business. If it is not in Christine’s expertise, she will find a consultant of hers that is. Her biggest rule is that her company is not mean to give you more work or be a chore. Instead, it is meant to make your work life easier. Christine’s ultimate goal for you is to help you get to the place where you are the most important person in the room. But without the need to be there all the time (meaning a dependable team!)

Christine believes in women empowerment. She elaborates on how she only hires women to help empower her clients. Because to Christine, most women lack confidence, particularly in the business world. This is something that Christine wants you to no longer feel. So she hires other informed women to keep the standard of empowerment. She never wants you to feel weak or powerless. Instead, she wants to help give you a voice and see your worth in your skill. Did you know most women will only apply for jobs when they have at least eight qualifications, but men will apply after they have two? So, why do men have more confidence? Confidence is not a trait, it’s a skill, and it is a skill you can learn.  Christine wants you to learn this confidence, apply it in your business, and then take your business to the next level. 

  So, join Crystal and Christine as they talk about confidence, and how to get your business to where you want it to be.  And then, do something today that your future self will thank you for, and be sure to contact Christine about your consultation today. 

How to reach Christine:

Website : 19thandco.com I LinkedIn- cwoodward1

Christine Woodward as guest on TPD episode about women empowerment

Recommended podcasts:

The pitch and How I built this

Episode #0040 A dual podcast of The Productive Designer and LinkedIn with Louise.

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson joins Louise Brogan for a dual podcast of The Productive Designer and LinkedIn with Louise.   

Louise will answer Crystal’s many questions about how to use the social media platform LinkedIn with ease and professionalism. As this platform continues to grow in popularity,  becoming more authentic, now is the time to start defining yourself before it becomes too cluttered. Currently, the platform can be seen as a wild west. Most people have one, but only 1% of the users are currently using it regularly and to its full potential. Louise will show you how you can define yourself and get yourself established before others catch on. 

Unlike most social platforms LinkedIn really only needs to have two posts a week in order for you to stay ahead of the game. With that being said, it is best to be intentional with your posts. For example, if you are reposting an article, why are you reposting it? What is special about it? Elaborate on your content. Louise recommends commenting on someone’s posts, instead of just “liking” it. This will show up on their comments, and it will show your name and headline. The more eye-catching your headline, the better. This will allow you to be seen instead of getting lost in the “likes”. 

Louise also dives into the importance of knowing that the platform is a “slow burn.” You’re not mean to find business in two or three weeks. You’re not mean to be an overnight sensation. Instead, it is about the connections that you make and the conversations you have. Don’t just instantly try to sell your product or business. You should try having a genuine conversation first to open the door. After you’ve established connections and had conversations, that’s really when things can start moving into place. It may take two or three months or more, but in the end, it will be worth it. 

So, join Crystal and Louise as they talk about the wild west of LinkedIn. And then, do something today that your future self will thank you for, and be sure to tune into LinkedIn with Louise. 

How to reach Louise:

Website : louisebrogan.com     LinkedIn : louisebrogan     Instagram- louisebrogan

Louise Borgan on TPD episode A dual podcast of The Productive Designer and LinkedIn with Louise

Episode #0039 Pamela Durkin, discusses new perspectives on social media

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson chats with author and interior designer Pamela Durkin.

Pam has been in the industry for almost thirty years, and for most of that time, she has owned her own interior design firm. Pamela believes the best part of being a Designer is knowing the value you bring to the table when someone hires you. Elaborating on knowing your worth when walking into a home. Pamela explains how when a Client is looking ot hire a  Designer it is less about the furniture selections and more about how to make a space that works. Their home is a sanctuary, and they have to feel safe, comfortable, and blissful in their space. 

Pamela also gives Crystal new perspectives on social media. While Crystal often sees it “as a necessary evil”.  Providing tips on how to make your social media more impactful. Aw we know in reality, it is essential, as everyone is doing it. But, if everyone is doing it, why are you? Are you just going to post a white kitchen because everyone is? Or are you going to add what makes your kitchen style different? What elements did you add? What is unique? The real question is, if everyone is posting the same things, what can you do to make you stand out? Are you commenting on other’s post? The most important thing about social media is to be consistent and to show a different perspective.  

So, join Crystal and Pamela as they talk about new perspectives on social media, owning your own business, and Pamela’s book. And then, do something today that your future self will thank you for and check out Pamela’s book Elevate on Amazon.  

How to reach Pamela:

Website : pamela-durkin.com      I       Facebook : pameladurkindesigns/ 

Instagram- @pameladurkin

Book- Elevate-design-business-basement-Penthouse

Pamela Durkin on TPD episode discussing new perspectives on social media

Recommended podcast : Redefining Wealth

Recommended books : Essentialism, No BS Marketing to the Affluent, My book, Elevate

Episode #0038 Authentic Social Media Networking with J. Kelly Hoey

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson with author and speaker J. Kelly Hoey.  

Kelly started off a lawyer, but after many years on Twitter, she has since discovered her unique ability to combine networking and social media. She combined the digital age with the “analog” world, and she has unlocked the ability to create a new network without having to leave the house. In light of the pandemic and the need to meet virtually, she gives tips on how to best use your different platforms to work for you.  

The biggest advice she has for anyone who is on social media is to stop thinking about social media being another alternate personality. Instead, your social media should be a reflection of who you are as a person. Depending on the platform, you can decide what piece of your personality you might share, but no matter the media, it should always be authentic. You should never be striving to be anyone other than yourself. 

Kelly also knows the power of networking, the right way. After meeting with someone, you should always send a quick email thanking them for the meeting. The second email afterwards is most important and is often forgotten. The second email should be explaining what you did with the insight and information you were given. By doing so, you demonstrate that you listened and you took action. A simple follow-up status email, shows that you are taking the time to show you appreciation. When taking time for others, people will notice. 

So, join Crystal and Kelly as they talk about social media, networking, and authenticity. And then, do something today that your future self will thank you for and check out J. Kelly’s book Build Your Dream Network. 

How to reach Kelly:

Website – jkellyhoey.co      I      Twitter- jkhoey 
LinkedIn- kellyhoey          I      Instagram- jkellyhoey

J. Kelly Hoey as guest on TPD episode Authentic Social Media Networking
Recommended podcasts:

The Red Note, The New Paris, Before Breakfast

- Click here for the RAW, unedited transcript -

Welcome everyone to another episode of The Productive Designer I have a special guest with me today I’ve been very fortunate to have lots of wonderful guests, and this guest will definitely not disappoint. I have Kelly, who we with me, who is she’s obsessed with changing the way that we understand and approach networking, she’s an author. Her book is bream network forging powerful relationships in a hyper connected world, Kelly has appeared on many different shows and has many accolades to her name, which I will put in the show notes, and let’s just bring Kelly on welcome Kelly.

Hey, thanks for having me fun to be here. This is great to have you I am really excited about talking about this topic today because I think, more than ever, right now with us being, you know online networking is a definitely different has a different lens than it has in the past, so they’ll tell us a little bit more about how you sort of got to where you are today,

well who knew that practicing law on, you know base Street and Toronto, get you here, new to being an author of a book on networking but my career started as a lawyer and, you know, for anyone knows that profession, you know for practicing or, you know have relatives or whatever who are lawyers, it’s sort of this profession where you have to invest a lot in what to say your skills development, a lot in client relationships, and a lot of time at your desk doing client work, and how do you balance those things so that you build the relationships because the only way to be successful in that profession is from client relationships, and just doing. And so, there’s an element of you can’t work, your head down and do the work but I practiced, and graduated law school back in 1991 So what was our technology, more Palm Pilots, maybe wasn’t even very early on in my career realize that you had this friction of you had to build relationships, but the work requirements meant you were often in isolation. And so how do you reconcile those two things. And so I began looking at networking differently. And I think a lot of people you pinpointed a lot of people are challenge right now, because we’re in this wholly digital world. But I think the challenge for some people, extends far before 2020 kind of pigeonhole what we believe networking is. Yeah, and they think it’s this transactional schmoozing conferences, coffee dating out your business cards. Yeah, business cards, cocktail party, you know, how do I chat with a stranger kind of thing. Yeah, rather than thinking, how would where am I interacting with people on a day to day basis. So if I go back to 1991 Kelly that was, you know, how was I interacting with people on a daily basis, I was sending email I was leaving voicemail, I was writing and sending memos, I was, you know, okay, so all of those touch points are in my mind, networking activities, chance to build start further enhance a relationship, and that kind of mindset has carried me through to now.

Yeah I can see it’s funny whenever I’ve watched legal shows, because that’s where I’ve got my legal knowledge. I watched that and I would think my god it’s so much is on sales for I’m using air quotes but sales, part of the business because you need to bring in those big clients. And yeah, to your point, I can’t imagine I mean obviously that’s why you have, I guess law clerks and juniors and whatever that are doing the grunt work but really when you move up the chain you’re no longer practicing really you’re just doing relationship building,

well you’re doing relationship building. So often, you’re not going to get a client to move, just on the basis of a single pitch. It’s sort of like, you have to liken it to football. Every once in a while someone wins a team wins again because of a Hail Mary, you know the quarterback throws the Hail Mary, but most of the time it’s a series of, you know, another three rounds. Another, another play and another, you know, few more yards and a few more yards. And so, how to show up every day and looking at the numbers of ways they encounter you I think is far more powerful than thinking, I’m going to swoop in once and dazzle them, and they’re going to move 15 years of relationship over to me.

It’s completely okay to even think that that kind of, no it really, really isn’t. So yeah, so we kind of touched on the COVID so how, like how are you seeing the poll, have you seen even let’s just say in the last five years because people were using, you know, we’re not talking business to business or, you know, using LinkedIn a lot, using social platforms of some sort, a lot more. Prior to the pandemic. So how have you seen the shift because you know you’ve been involved in this in a long time and, and how are we changing.

Well I think there’s a lot of people who have looked at, I want to say, digital virtual online networking, as the secondary or lesser less adequate form of networking, and I think they’ve thought that there’s different rules, or protocols that are etiquette that applies to me because it’s online, oh this is, this is my online persona or this is my, this is what I do online but this is who I am in person and somehow this, it’s not as real right like

it’s gonna say to city of right because you can curate that and you can craft it and you can spend hours writing the perfect two sentences,

but I think that’s the sort of mindset of this sort of digital thinking that’s not in real life, and what we’ve realized since 2020 is it’s like it is, it is real life. And if anyone wonders if I’m New York City, wherever you are, you’re here we go. There you go, authentic, authentic, authentic, you know, voices in New York. Hey Kelly Where are you, well I can’t hide bad at this point. Yeah, so, but I’ve been advocating for some time, it’s not one or the other. Human beings are using all the tools at our disposal to connect with each other, and there is a digital first generation. And then there’s a generation that is rapidly adopting the digital at a faster speed than the digital generation. We think that the digital generation was also the generation that brought us co working spaces and maker spaces and, you know, all of those things because they wanted to figure out how we can get together in person. Again, whereas, you know, the analog generation the boomers and beyond. And you know probably Gen X part of my generation, they have been the fastest adopters because you know what other kids with grandkids what you know like, Oh, if I want to write. So, at some point there had to and I’ve been saying there’s somewhat there had to be some kind of a coalition, where we just realized, this is how we connect and communicate and maybe that’s what 2020 is given us is a chance to realize like, oh, there’s a multiple of tools. It’s not one or the other, it’s both, we need to be amphibious in how we move between these and how we need to use all of these in our networking toolkit to connect with other people, the people who I believe are going to be successful in our world going forward, are those who can build relationships online and take them offline, and those who know how to maintain and enhance their analog or analog relationships, their analog relationships in the digital world, because they need to do both. Yeah, they influence each other. And one of the things I talked about in my book, build your dream network is, I don’t look at digital spaces, any differently than I look at, in real life spaces. So you mentioned LinkedIn. Yeah, LinkedIn, reminds me of a Law Society of Upper Canada event really now okay so explain that. I feel I gotta put a suit on, I need a certain context in terms of how I talk what information I share what information I want to receive. I feel like I’m going to be a suit, again, when I’m on LinkedIn,

right. I really feel like that because I feel like it’s changing a little bit like I feel like I’m definitely seeing more stuff that is more personal, more human than than it was.

I think there’s much more personality in it, I think there’s much more banter, but I don’t want to see what someone chose to wear or what they’re eating on LinkedIn. So that’s what I mean by the context, you know, the banter that you see in the comments I think of that like the hallway banter if we were attending a big conference. Okay, I wanted around the conference, you know, or I wanted around that context of that information, not like there’s other places for that personal kind of conversation so I said, share with people, I think of LinkedIn like the office or the professional industry conference or association, you know Facebook I, you know, when I was on it I would think of it like friends and family. Yeah, how you gather around the Thanksgiving table. Okay, and then Twitter’s the grand cocktail party, how are you good guest, and then how about Instagram. That’s, that’s an interesting Well it’s kind of a combination of things. You know, it’s kind of a mixed use because even when people have used it, and I’m thinking, interior designers have been extraordinarily good at using Instagram with the visuals of the properties, the real estate but design, but when they’ve inserted. Personal like they took a dog to work one day, that’s when they’ve seen engagement go up, so I can sort of feels like you kind of, I don’t know, it’s driving like driving a standard car you know you got to get both pedals go in there.

I get that. That’s funny. Yeah, it’s funny I used to be on Twitter and then I haven’t been on it in years, and I hate to say this but like did Donald Trump like like give life back to Twitter or has Twitter always been. It’s funny, like, people are talking more about Twitter again, whereas I felt like it kind of went away.

Yeah, it kind of, it lost, it lost some of the joy. That’s probably the best way of putting it got very marketing. Okay, I got very lost the conversation because originally. I’ve been on since like 2008 2009 was pretty early on, and I looked at it and you could based on hashtag you could find other people who were talking about the same things you were and you could see what they were talking about and, and then you could enter into conversations with them so I feel particularly as a woman, that it enabled us to be invited into like networking rooms that were otherwise previously close to us, and I’ll, I’ll give you an example on that. Okay, yeah, I was like, great how thinking about Twitter like the cocktail party you can find conversations of interest, and then you bring your human networking, you know, kind of attributes, not you know marketing attributes you bring your human attributes, and you follow, and you listen and you engage, And if you’re the good guess you get invited back or people want to interact with you. So you and I recording this conversation and luckily we’re doing it on Zoom and we got video and so we can see each other. Yeah, just like the way you just said yep or the way you’ve nodded when I’ve made comments. How is it like or retweet, any different than those physical nodding are saying yeah I agree with you, it’s not so if we start looking at those technology kind of features of a social networking site say what is, if I was standing and talking to someone, what’s the human equivalent of that. Yeah, why wouldn’t we use it that way so you want the example I always use is the foreword to the paperback edition of my book was written by Tom Peters best selling author who wrote In Search of Excellence best selling business book for 40 years he’s written like 20 books, prolific writer management speaker before Twitter where would I have a dialogue with talk. I don’t know like a book signing where I’d be some sort of bonding sinker fan, and it would just be really awkward. Yeah 10 seconds of his time and yeah hey Mr Peters you’re really swell like nicely signed a book and like be like, carry on, like, you know, Another crazy other book signing center away right. We gathered around conversations on Twitter regarding management and corporate governance and board diversity, and had banter back and forth. And then, you know, next thing I know I got a mentor, a friend, someone who offered to write the foreword to my book has been a massive champion of mine. And by the way, we’ve tweeted at each other for probably going on 10 years now. We’ve had a few phone calls, I’ve had the joy of interviewing him twice, and we’ve met once in person. That’s amazing. Yeah, it was perfect and when we met in person it was no different than our banter on Twitter, except we had more than 280 characters.


a limited amount. That’s amazing. So what, like why do we have such a hard time networking why we find it such a challenge and I think first of all, I mean I think just to, I think our mindset is exactly what you were talking about at the beginning is, you know, we’re at the cocktail party and we’re going in for the hurt sell or we’re gonna pass out our card and we’re, you know, it’s the fake schmooze II stuff so yeah, get that aside and then we actually get down to the nitty gritty of what what makes it so difficult for people.

Well I think there is that element of the One and done like if we don’t nail this person right now, we’re in rather than looking at every encounter as a chance to start, or further a relationship like it’s not, if you don’t get the deal or if you don’t like why can’t it just be the start of a relationship. The first time you meet someone, I think, so there’s, there’s that element to it, but the basic thing is networking is hard because you got to deal with human beings. And we’re weird,

yeah. Oh yeah. It’s true right because you you, I mean when you’re chatting with somebody, it can be all of a sudden you’d be like, Oh that was a great conversation was so easy, it flowed. And then there’s other times you start talking to somebody and you’re like, Okay, I gotta get myself out of this conversation like quickly because this is awkward and it’s not going anywhere. And so you just kind of know you don’t have a rapport with that person,

and then you find out later that they thought you were the most interesting person on the face of the earth and they’re looking forward to talking to you later. And the person that you have a great conversation with you follow up with them and they act like they’ve never heard of you before. Yeah. And, yeah, like we think of yourself on any given day of the week, we are nice needs, desires, wants change. Yeah, probably hourly, daily. Yeah, so you’re always having to factor in like, you know, how can how can I listen, observe and understand this other person who is, you know, at any given point, got different needs, wants, and desires.

Exactly, and you don’t know what just happened to them an hour before they arrived at this conference or, or what’s happening in their life or whatever, right,

right, and you know, we tried so much anxiety into one interaction, that when we don’t hear from someone you think oh my god it’s us. Maybe it’s them. I know.

It’s like flipping it you got to flip it, you got to flip the narrative and sometimes go you don’t know what’s going on in their life right and then you automatically, or I guess our innate instinct is to go if something’s wrong with me, you know, what’s, Why did they get back to me and it’s got to be me and yet, yet you don’t know what’s happening right they look at some humanoid huge project that’s on the go and overwhelmed. You know, I mean I’m guilty of reading the email, and as soon as it’s, you know, gone far enough down my screen and it’s not in my boot like forget right life gets.

So, or I had a situation years ago so you know how nice and warm our computers get. So I had a cat who really loved that. Oh, nothing better than sticking this little chan on Mac keyboard, one time and like were my emails. Seriously, like just sat on it long enough to delete, delete, delete, delete, and then it must have been like, do you want to permanently delete these things and, you know, the cat was like, Yeah, let’s do that too. And I remember thinking, and then I thought to myself, What’s really important. And it’s like the new version of my dog ate my homework, right, my cat deleted my, you know, rather, anxious, neurotic about it, or rather than getting kind of uppity and kissing. Just, you don’t know. So yeah, send a card of communication that you would like to receive. And having that empathy and being open to understanding. The first time I said this, someone said to me, what’s the trick to networking I’m like a jerk. You want to networking hack Don’t be a jerk like don’t send email but if you received it you would, you know, flip the bird off at someone, and yeah, because you don’t know, maybe, maybe they’re sick, maybe a family member sick maybe the cat deleted their emails.

I’m gonna use that one. I love it. What are some of the mistakes people make with networking like what, what do you see is kind of a common phone call, or, you know,

blunder that people do. If you were to correct one thing, and I actually think this is one really big thing and it in my mind is the biggest networking mistake, it’s a failure to follow up, or follow through. Okay, so I think it’s networking courtesy like someone agrees to meet you for say a zoom coffee date to just thank them right like hey thank you very much for taking that meeting with me. That’s just common courtesy. Absolutely. But what’s the communication said after that. And the number of people. Well, shocking and deploring the number of people who don’t send the first email, not to send the second one and more the third one, have a zoom, day, and someone gives you some information, you’re like, Thank you for taking the meeting appreciated your advice. Let them know what you did with the advice. Did you read the book did you apply the information did you follow up on the job leave they recommended you to, you know, fix your cover letter did you tell them what you did. And let’s just reach back out. No, you suggest today that this revised, you know, my, my resume, applied for some new roles and you’re right, I got a whole lot more hits thanks to your advice, I’ll keep you posted on my job search, period, you don’t have to ask them for another coffee date you don’t have to let them know, because people who give their time willingly, like they do that because they want to they want to help other people. And the way that they continue to want to help you is if you just let them know that you actually use their advice, how not to here’s, okay,

if I had an instance where I reached out to I work with a lot of builders and developers, that’s pretty much my, my niche that I work in, and I’ve been very fortunate that over the 1820 years, I’ve really haven’t had to cold call, it’s been very much referral based and, but I have you know started reaching out a bit more to some, some builders that I haven’t worked with before and sort of a wiser refer to that you know a warm lead somebody introduced me, sent a little note, you know, did some research on them referenced a project that they’re that’s coming up, you know, wondering if you can, you know, facilitate an introduction to the like the marketing manager who would be more who I’d be in contact with, and radio silence and then I followed up another one just Hey, just wanted to make sure this didn’t get in your you know last year Mail. Where do you once, I mean, I’ve obviously given up on that. But if I were to reach out to them again in numbers, maybe right now. I’m busy. Nothing that that is relevant for me right now. God, whatever, like how I think there’s this first interactions is good but then when it’s been, you know, six months or four months like what are what are your some tricks or tips or advice on how that sort of dynamic relationship without a feeling like hide even more from you. Exactly.

Particularly, we had a warm intro. The person who made the warm intro, I was letting them know what happened. Now, that’s part of follow through that I would always do. By the way, I’ve emailed so when I hear back from that might be a situation that so and so a couple of times, didn’t hear anything. You know I’m gonna see what’s going on with them if there’s any, you know insights or color, you could add just they may go, oh yeah, it’s been sick it’s anything and physios, whatever. And that’s, That’s why, but that person made that initial warm intro, this is where they want to know what’s happened because they may have made have done a whole bunch of networking favors to this guy. And they, or gal company, and so they may have been like, yo, yo, we won. or they may be, you know, they may be like whoa like that is really out of character what’s going on, let me find out and I’ll get you back some more information, so look that original like that let that person know because they may add some color and stuff to it and then the other piece on this one is, yeah, I mean reach, this is like, Thank God for like Google Alerts and things and social platforms in this sense is that you know you can kind of be like that good internet stalker, you can find information, because maybe there’s something about their company, maybe there’s a new project you’ve been awarded, you know, maybe you see that they recent some industry, is there some other say well it’s been ages since we talked and saw on LinkedIn that you were just granted you know whatever congratulations whatever if there’s no the opportunity for me to work with you or pitch you again. I mean, obviously love to have it but the purpose of this communication is. Yeah.

Yeah, it’s funny because it’s those initials are sort of easy but then it’s like, you know the, we will keep you in mind, we don’t have anything right now and if something comes up and then you want to kind of keep going back to them but without sounding desperate.

Another way to go back to them is to if there’s other projects you’ve worked on in the interim, that would be parallel to the type of work you want to do with them. Just to say hey since we last talk. These are some of the projects that I have worked on here’s where you can, you know, assuming it’s publicly available, or someone to visually see what the work is is uh here’s you know, here’s some of the things that I’ve done this one in particular would look like, looks like, you know, might have been something that would have been up your alley in terms of me looking at what you’ve done before and I just wanted to keep you posted on my portfolio of work and I’m optimistic that something will come out for the future that we’ve worked together.

So how do we like disconnect without losing momentum as far as I don’t want to be hounding, but we don’t want to like where’s the fine line of kind of trying to keep that relationship going. If there’s not, if it’s not reciprocal I guess well things are cyclical,

you know where you can file those really think of this in the in the digital world where you have so many social media gurus were like, You need to know you need to post five times a day and you need to do this, you need to do that mine you need to as you need to be generous and considerate and human, and you need to be adding value to other people and adding value doesn’t mean that you were, you know, a megaphone for your own, you know fabulousness all the time, right. Yeah. And I think if you are present and you’re authentic when you’re on social channels, and you’re truly human. Then you can log out and not have anything to worry about. In that sense, when I think of a friend of mine who’s an independent filmmaker photographer based in Paris, Elena Rossini 2019 Yeah, she was off. Social for over a month because she got married, and she came back and all her followers on Twitter were like, it was the wedding. Good to see you. Yeah, She didn’t lose followers. It wasn’t some catastrophe. Her work in her business and she gets. She’s a case study my book she gets like 90% of her business leads because of Twitter. Yeah. And so, it’s all on how she uses it, and that sort of authenticity and really highlighting the work of other people, as opposed to, hey, hey, hey right kind of sad. Yeah, and there was no ramifications. There was no detrimental ramifications for her completely stepping off social for over a month. How do

you see is a is a happy balance because we’re all, you know, predominantly, my audiences, independent business people, or small business owners where we’re wearing 17 different hats at a time, and social media can be just yet another I have two on my list of things to do, you know, they’ll say we should spend a day of your week or whatever marketing and everything like where is that sort of fine line up where you think it’s being effective, but it’s not. Because sometimes I really don’t know how, how effective social media is like. Again, it’s this double edged sword for me. So,

here’s how here’s how I think about it is, In many ways, social media is the best listening to you have for what your industry what your clients what your potential clients are thinking about caring about who’s complaining about what’s their news, what’s happening about them because that’s where the news and information breaks first, And so, in many ways is you know, the awareness of what’s on those platforms, how they work, how your client base is using them. And in using it in that listening, observing research trends in many ways that’s its highest and best use equally highest and best use is, are you think about first impressions. It’s someone recommending you or talking about you. And the room that we’re someone may kind of affirm that first impression or solidify that first impression is because they plunk your name in a Google search. And then what shows up, probably your website, your LinkedIn, and your Twitter as a probably the first things that show up. So, the second element and sort of its highest and best view says, well this is reaffirming affirming solidifying a reputation. How can I make sure I have the strongest, and how to make sure there’s not a disconnect between what my great mentor and friend says about me and never wasn’t discovers online, right, and that’s an SEO play. Yeah. I’m not saying Oh, you got to post. But if somebody, there’ll be a network and said, if someone is looking for you. You know, what are you networking out to the world. So use those, those are when I think of a business owner use them in those ways. And then thirdly it’s like if you’re Chataway online, you know, be there, be authentic and they do it when you have something to say and show as much, and engage, what other people is graduating worrying about who is going to go viral, money, or which vanity metric, am I going to get all wrangled up in today like here. So, yes,

so we just have so it’s such a quantitative, at least two years ago when advertising was you put a billboard you put a newspaper ad you put a whatever, you didn’t have that like instantaneous feedback of whether it was good or bad or indifferent, you know, it was months of okay well that ad went out here and and now we see some sales increase so it must have been, you know like the track that we have at our hands now is, it’s almost too much a timeframe you can, as you call it the vanity metrics like it can, it can make you crazy.

So, what are your clients, what use it as a research tool. Use it in a way that you understand that if someone said oh my god you got to go and talk to Crystal She’s fabulous. And they all have a Google search or they walk across the Florida cocktail party,

they’re like,

are those parts of your network, or are they enhancing, you know, what do you want to be sound for the words want sent your way. Yeah,

so it’s almost like the, the, solidifying your brand with your brand and making sure that all the pieces that you put out there are authentically you and what you’re about and who you are and what

business do you do right what like why, why, you know, kind of losing networking in the network building opportunity because I don’t know your LinkedIn profile doesn’t have a headshot, and no one has any knowledge of how to find you because you buried your contact information on your website. Recommendation perfect person for you don’t make the introduction. I’m just doing research first. No,

right, let’s

just look at a part of me as you can call it a personal brand, I always say personal brand or your branding, particularly an individual company is based on what your network tells you is how you behave and how you engage as opposed to something that you quickly find strapped for time, and he was my mindset, my, my approach on this, you know, goes back to where we started this conversation. Being a lawyer, having to build ours, not having time, but knowing I had to build relationships. So, how can the information. Other people find what I’m recommended, how can it, you know, affirm that I am the one for the job, can they reach me easily when we do exchange information, you know, do they kind of still is it all adding up to something that when they finally do meet me, they’re like, Oh wow, yeah, this was a great person, this was, this was like.

So in summary, you’d basically say, Like make sure your website is current and, you know, is portraying you in the way that you want. Obviously contact information being easy to find, you know what you’re discussing online as you know is is a permanent sort of record of who you are and what you’re about and what your thoughts are and yes I’m very conscious about not making any political statements like I’m pretty conscious of that, obviously right now, it’d be so easy to do. But you know just any of that stuff where it’s just that double checking of, you know, once you press you know sin it’s up there and it’s kind of already there for the world.

I think we’re gonna go keep going back to Little League. It was a partner, a law firm, and he says, oh, you know, sort of that arrogance of, you know, private equity, m&a is like oh I don’t need to be on Twitter, no one no one, no one who matters, like, my business is there. I’m like, Oh really, really, I should give me a couple of names or some of your clients, and let’s see what else. Yeah, so the next day I sent him like an email with 75 Twitter handles. There was his clients there was some of the people that they followed who seem to be similar types of private equity and hedge funds and other asset class kind of similar asset class. I said, and then here’s all the competitor firms who had those practices who were also on Twitter and had accounts and I said, I did 30 minutes of research. Did you want me to do some more. Can we just say that, you know maybe it’s good I mean maybe I won that argument. Yeah, like, you know, like point Kelly. And, yeah, the point is is kind of like, no you don’t need to be sitting there tweeting all the time and you don’t need to listen to that garbage advice of oh you need to tweet five times a day and you need to do this and you need to do that. But you need to be aware of who’s out there and you need to make an active choice in terms of missing kind of having, having a piece of your networking opportunities like like ignoring you know and again goes back to, Again, I think for for time starved individuals, business owners typically are, you know what, think of it as part of your research on your clients know and if you do Google alerts on your prime clients or potential clients or prospects, it’ll pull up their tweets and everything else. This is a good stocking on the internet,

productive stocking.

Stocking well I mean there’s just, I find it’s such a, it could be sort of a daunting and overwhelming, and then looking at it I guess I’ve never really, I think I had these in two different silos to be honest I think I had networking in one silo and social media in another silo and, you know, not sort of, I mean this conversation is giving me such a good perspective of what that is, even though I know that it was kind of there like I know it’s just, you know, awareness top of mind, blah blah blah. You know, commenting, so that you’re continuing but I never sort of looked at that was associated with networking. So, what were you thinking,

you know, seven touch points to a sale, but you know back in the day, you know, kind of, Zig Ziglar or whatever it’s like yeah, what is that gonna be, you know, seven lunches before you met you know, seven coffee date seven, you know steak dinner, communication, could lead to a voicemail that’s a retweet, that’s repost that’s a comment that so, you know, with all of those things and next thing you know everything, small business owner, you know, your networking Arsenal What’s your email signature, you know, do you have the links in there, or is it showing who you are, maybe you’ve got a quote that gives an impression, or a link to some media where you’ve appeared or maybe you’re like hey, our latest work is featured in and that’s in your email signature line. You will soon join as part of your networking arsenal. Your influence as part of your networking arsenal, You know if you got a business that’s, you know, got an answering, you know, answering service, how they treat customers is part of your networking Arsenal because any kind of disconnecting that chain affects the relationship with the individual, for sure.

Absolutely. Oh my gosh,

this is great i This is like, I think it’s just giving me such a different perspective on how I’m looking at posting, even from the podcast and like just, it’s I think you because it’s great, no doubt it really hasn’t made me go. You know, it’s those aha moments,

liberating as well, because there’s more chances to connect with people, and more. By sort of micro networking actions as I like to do. And I think going full on most of it will be even more credit. This past year, I do want to be decision makers, purchasers of your services people who need to interact with. Cool, for whatever reasons may never come out from behind a screen. So there’s so many people like, oh I can’t go back to the normal and we can, We can go and good conferences and stuff again. Some keynotes decision makers, people are gonna be like, I want to do that like I want to end up in an ICU with a gym down my throat, you know,

thank you very much. Yeah, because we’ve definitely seen how did that, How we can do things differently now.

We’ll use the example of like various meetings I’ve had them saved me a minimum of an hour for a minimum of an hour of my day by not having a meeting. Before I need to be on the call and so I think to your point, our human behavior, definitely, I would say I’d love to see what they’re gonna write about, you know, this sort of the social this pandemic will change, like change, everyone and how willing, I think we’re a part of it, experiment.

Really, a Twilight Zone episode and someone’s gonna come out and tell us to analyze to get the result

that conspiracy theorists social experiment we want to see how this was gonna do. Yeah, I, yeah it’s crazy, and that can go into so many different discussion topics on on how this is going to affect us good, bad or indifferent, but we will go there because we don’t have all big. So I want to ask you some of my interior acquisition questions, just ask all my guests at the end of every episode. What is one thing you think

every person should experience in their lives, regret, and I say this sooner sooner. Better than later and analyze why you have the lack so you can make better choices going forward. The mistakes or failures, learn from them, and how your choices affect other people and what that impact is and then say right. Let me have clarity so in the future, how I make my choices so I don’t have to experience this again. What’s the wisest thing that you’ve ever done. I don’t have a plan B, mentor and a friend and he said, consider if you’re focusing on plan B, you’re not executing planning. That’s very good. Yeah, it’s like, failure is not an option right.

Episode #0037 Setting realistic expectations in the construction business with Rahul Faria

Featured in this week’s episode of The Productive Designer host Crystal Collinson with fellow podcaster Rahul Faria. 

Rahul works in construction and has a clear passion for the craft. He started his podcast Build Our Future to better understand the changes the world of construction is making. He believes in understanding the past in order to create a better future. He also found that while in his podcast pursuits he fell in love with his job all over again. Sometimes in our lives, we can hit a rut in our careers and forget why we loved our job in the first place. This podcast has helped him reignite that love, by having meaningful discussions with others about various topics related to construction. 

As we navigate this new world, we all have had to adjust to new difficulties due to the pandemic, and sometimes relying upon realistic timelines and budgets is almost impossible. Many want discounts due to COVID, but he has to explain the added hardships that the job now encounters including safety measures, extensions, guidelines in place during COVID outbreaks, and more. 

Rahul reminds us that the client should always be given realistic expectations and an understanding of the buying decisions. For example, sometimes quality is better the more you pay.  In other cases, sometimes the price is high, but the quality is not. It is his job to explain to the client what their expectations of the products should be. This allows for clients to fully understand what their choices are and what their purchase means long term.

So, join Crystal and Rahul as they talk about podcasts, constructions, and realistic expectations. And then, do something today that your future self will thank you for and listen to Crystal on the Build Our Future Podcast.

How to reach Rahul:

Website – rahulfaria.com     I     LinkedIn: rahul-faria 

Twitter: @rahul_faria      I      Instagram: @rahulfaria 

Rahul Faria as guest on TPD episode Setting realistic expectations in the construction business
Recommended podcast:

Contech Crew, The Construction Record and The Site Visit

- Click here for the RAW, unedited transcript -

So welcome everyone to another episode of The Productive Designer I have a special guest with me today I have Rahul Faria and he is from One Oak Construction as well as Build Your Future podcast welcome Rahul.

Thank you Crystal great day, great to be here.

Oh, it’s so great that we finally managed to schedule us and just sort of make it happen because I know we talked about it and

as I know last year, it’s a better part of a year now right I

know, but life happens right quarantine and lockdowns happen.

That’s right, that’s right. Sometimes it feels busier during lockdown and quarantine then.

I totally agree. I just keep looking at my to do list going. Okay. Some of these are self imposed I probably could take some things off but then you also feel this pressure of, okay, we’ve got a little bit of downtime, now’s the perfect time to do it right so it was a double edged sword. So tell our listeners a little bit about your day job, and then your podcast. Yeah, yeah,

so I started up a construction company about March will be eight years now, called window construction as you mentioned, worked in the industry. I mean, full time since 2005 But, you know, I went to school for civil engineering and at Waterloo University of Waterloo and we had Co Op program there. And throughout my many Co Op turns working with engineers municipalities, the one field that I really enjoyed working in was construction, you know, I could see a 2d drawing and actually see it being built, you know, and it was it was, I was fascinated by that you know that lines on a sheet of paper. Now I mean now you can see it but some of the construction modeling software right Oh yeah 3d renderings Come on, but back then I mean, I mean it’s not that, you know that long ago but yeah 1617 years ago that stuff wasn’t necessarily the way it is now so now that come to fruition like physically and, you know, being able to walk in to a store that was built by the company and you know it was just, to me it was fascinating. Yeah, so when I graduated, I you know had a couple stops and learned the ropes and as most entrepreneurs do know, we tend to think that we could do it better so we start. So I started eight years ago and most entrepreneurs will know in any business you know you go, ups and downs and left’s and rights and sidesteps and restarts and refocused and replanting and re, you know that we went commodity, a lot of reuse right. But you know, with those reasons, there’s always like fundamental core beliefs that you have as a person, you try to, you know, you try to find team members that that believe in that same vision that you have, you know, because that’s, that’s the goal at the end of the day you know we, I always want to do something I love. So I try to get that same passion with the people that I have. Yeah, yes, there’s always the mundane stuff we got to do like paperwork. Yeah, so you know, you know, I’ve been doing that for eight years and as you know last year, I started to build our future podcasts as well and you know I’m more of a research person analytical person and so I was planning it probably eight months prior to that, like the idea was actually in 2019 in the summer, but we’re busy and so it was slowly like Kid where, what might do I need What software do I need, how do I want to break like that I like. That gives me confidence. Yeah and then the lockdown happened and I had already recorded a few episodes and I was like, You know what, now’s a good time it’s any and we’ve been, you know, talking to people from all over the world and it’s, it’s eye opening some of the construction methodologies and you know initially it came out, it started as more of a conceptual kind of show where we talk about we talk to people and companies that have been pushing new concepts in the workplace that either gonna improve efficiencies or provide some value added service. Yeah, but as I started talking to people and hearing about what other people are doing, you know, it kind of evolved into, you know couriers, operations, sustainability ideas and concepts you know that were actually challenging our mind, you know I like to say thought leaders, shall I say, yeah, absolutely. And so I found it fascinating talking to these people and I’m a talker too so it came, came a little bit my wife likes to say, you know you’re gonna do this podcast, you got to let other people talk more than you do right so that was a little bit of an adjustment for me and it’s it’s been fantastic and you know I took a bit of a pause at the end of October, and back was getting was every week was too often for all the concepts and such. So, take a little bit of a pause and McKay, tried to refocus on okay. You know the many things in the podcast, we’ve talked about it but now it’s like a rat and never ending rabbit hole right, it really is. Yeah, Really I think for me the podcast is so phenomenal because I think it kind of reignited some of the passions for construction that kind of waiver wavered for me at times, you know, dealing with, you know some of the, I call them punch lists, other people might call them deficiency lists, you know, dealing with some of the trades and this you know sometimes you can really just dive into it fully and forget about family life, you know just other things. Oh yeah, absolutely, and I kind of was starting to lose some of that passion and with the podcast and hearing other people so passionate about what they’re doing and kind of just kind of just jump back into it right.

That’s great. I mean that’s good too. Yeah, cuz you do like, as you say there’s 24 hours in the day and you’ve got, you know, work that can consume 24 hours if you let it. But, yeah, you know, and then wanting to do in the podcast and I feel the same way when I start talking to people and because at times you go, you know the podcast it’s it’s something else right on top of all the other things, but once you get talking with somebody, you’re like okay no now I know why I’m, you know, I remember why I wanted to do this and it’s just great to have the conversations,

yeah, yeah. And part of the reason to is what I was finding the initial idea was, there’s so much technology out there, and I was really having a hard time trying to really figure out what kind of platforms work for me and my business, shall we say, No More often than not, most companies, they would set up like a one hour, an hour and a half like pitch brief, and you know you’re trying to find that time when you’re busy, is really challenging, trying to find that, you know, sometimes it’s hard finding 15 minutes in a day, when you’re really busy like driving around everywhere. So, you know, and I’ve been through so many different SaaS platforms, just trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t. So, I thought it would be something really cool. You know that people driving, or just listening on their leisure time can can just listen to it and be like, You know what that actually works for you because coming from the industry it’s easy for me to ask more pointed questions for as relates to the industry. Yeah right. It’s stuff that you know I’ve had people from other general contracting firms telling me that, you know, the questions you ask them is what we would ask them, but now we can just listen to it and see, okay, yeah, this actually might work for us. Well you know what they’re not quite there yet, but we’ll keep it in mind, you know, we’ll keep updates and see So, so you’re getting that kind of feedback has been, you know, it kind of pushes you to be some more to write,

because you know that you’re giving value right your eyes right people are gaining the knowledge, they’re getting value from what it is that you’re doing and you’re not just another podcast out there, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s definitely a niche, you know podcast as is mine but the people that are in it, that niche or, like, find value in it. So tell me about how many people are in your company like what is what is this size because I was finding that, to the point of software. Yeah, you know I’ve researched stuff for as I was mentioning before we recorded my husband’s contractor and it’s like, you know, we’ve tried to look at different songs but some of them is just way too big, like way too, robust and really not so really not needed a lot of the stuff so what, tell me about the size of your.

So actually, right now it’s just me. Okay. Unfortunately your great COVID Yeah, it’s just been, you know, I know it’s been a struggle for a lot of people right, we went through, I think at a peak, we’ve had as many as like 1213 site and office staff, yeah, when we were doing residential as well. Yeah, then we kind of pared down to about five seven kind of thing depending on workload, but then you know when, when the pandemic hit and then we had the lockdowns last year, all of my work I shut down, you know, for like six, I think, six, seven months was completely shut down. I kept my guys on for like a month, month and a half and just suddenly so long you can do, there’s only so long you can do it right, unfortunately, so you know I had to make some really challenging decisions at the time. And then I think late late in the fall, we got back to you know some smaller jobs and stuff and you know I was going. It was a really tough decision whether I should hire people or should I not hire, you know, a few of my guys found full time jobs for a man which was really good for me like I gave them glowing references I mean, they were with me for a reason.

Yeah, exactly.

So you know, at least I’m grateful that they found found some spaces but you know it’s been it’s been, it’s been a challenge right I mean, we were just getting back, I think last week we started a project and then, you know, the new lockdown started I put up a V log that I’m trying to do now once a week as well about the shutdown and honestly like, it felt like such a gut punch you know I started getting excited to get back to work and re engaging with trades and you know, challenging my mind on issues and you know like that kind of stuff that we take for granted sometimes again right

so like dope sorry doors rocket can go away

yeah so I mean so that was a bit of a that was a bit of a struggle. You know, it’s kind of one of those, it’s hard, but we’re not the only ones in this position, so we try to lean with our friends I keep in touch with my subs, my clients, my consultants because you know as business owners and even as just regular people, you know, we have ideas and visions of budgeting and planning, and so on and so forth and when that doesn’t come through, it’s really hard to put stuff on hold for, I mean, you can probably tell to you for as a business owner, like you’re always looking at okay how do I market myself what do I do, how do you market the business, but the problem is during this pandemic like the way marketing is changing so much. How do you, you know, commit a certain dollar value to marketing and stuff and then, you know, all of a sudden like that’s not resonating. You know what I mean like it’s, it’s really hard because no one knows what the start or the finishes right now.

Absolutely and I think with you and I, being in a project based type of business, you know, there’s budget, you know, these companies or clients, whatever, you know, if it’s not in their budget. It’s not you, it’s just not in the budget because

of, you know, can be so many things,

yes so many circumstances that are that are unforeseeable uncontrollable. And yeah, like, it’s kind of one of those where you can plan all you want but right now, like we just don’t know any.

Yeah, I mean, I think on one of my V logs again I put in, you know, everyone’s always trying to get a deal right. And so but I think I’ve heard it so many times right now, I don’t know if you have it’s, you know, can I get a COVID discount, so like it’s, and you know, in all fairness, I understand the psychology behind that. Yeah, well, would they don’t understand is how much more it’s actually costing us to save has

anybody looked at the cost of lumber that has not gone down.

Yes. Forget the cost of materials, the cost of the additional health and safety, the cost of scheduling workforce. Yeah, you don’t I mean, yeah, approaching that was normally two months is now three months because you can’t quote unquote blow it up, you know what I mean, people have to be segmented off in different different segments Absolutely

yeah, if you can continue right I mean,

if you can continue right, so, but I think it goes back to, you know I think fundamentally what you’re about, what any company is about when individual is about I think it’s how you present. I guess any, any, any business that aligned businesses, how do you present your proposal, you know, are you looking to provide the client with, You know as much valuable information upfront, or are you looking to get the job work, because there are two completely different things. I can price to get work, no problem.

And that’s unfortunately what a lot of the stereotypes of the contractors are right, they are really really low balled and then as the project goes on, you know that it’s like oh well yeah I only quoted extra that even that you know and it’s just, just like in that’s where the distrust is I think a lot of the time with, with the profession,

but I don’t necessarily blame the contractors, I think both people are at fault right because I know when I give a detailed proposal I’ve got broken down by division, you know, unit costs of things that you know if the stuff that we got to provide or assembly, they’re still trying to figure it out, but they don’t look at that they just go to the bottom dollar. Right, and I’ve had many times that people have come back to me, clients have come back to me and say hey can you match this price and I say okay, send it over. I’ll take a look and literally it’s like an Email Proposal. Yeah, you know, and here I’ve got a typed out letter with, you know, a full like spreadsheet breakdowns, referring to the drawing numbers, you know, so I’ve gone through and then I’ve got lists of assumptions. Yes, you know, lists of identify prices and lists of alternate prices in case they want to attend, but my main price is what the designer or the architect has has specified, because I don’t deviate from that, there’s a reason for that right because the vision that needs to be met. Now, I can come up with alternatives, but I need like you as the designer or the designer on the project to sign off because it might be a slight shade different, but now the lighting might have to change as a result


that. That’s right. So you know it’s not a problem, like I mean, it’s something I had to. With time kind of just accept that this is what I wanted and I’m not, I’m not going to be hitting at that I mean what do they say 20% is a good great winning projects like I’m not gonna hit at the 20%, but I’m okay with that because I want to make sure that upfront, I’m as honest as I can as open, because that also leads to a quicker job quicker payments quicker issues down the line, I’m not saying, I’ve done stuff perfectly, but the Loyalists progress not perfection. Right,

well, and less surprises right

surprises. That’s right, the

biggest thing right it’s transparency from the very beginning, you know, it’s the same when somebody says, Oh, you know we budgeted 20 grand for master bathroom, And you know I could say, Yeah, okay. That’s not gonna happen, like 20 grand is not going to cut it for what, what needs to be done. So yeah, I think it’s just being honest and upfront and managing expectations from the start, as opposed to, you know, kind of having that in that’s, that’s what I was saying about sort of the reputation was where, you know you’ve gone in because you’ve priced it so that you get the job, knowing full well that you haven’t priced it accurately and that there’s going to be additionals and then you lose it’ll

be additional, and that’s where you’re gonna make your money and another is that you look at all the soft costs involved to that people, especially on the residential side commercial side, obviously, the larger the company, the more they know about it. The smaller independent owners, they don’t know that what you know, because a contractor’s certificate of insurance is or what it actually does. They don’t understand WSI B, they don’t understand that you’re, Like residential, like no one really provides WSI B to their, you know, to the clients when they’re building. No but in commercial it’s mandatory no one pulls insurance and residential, right, but those are all costs that add up with time and it’s just like on the insurance. Yeah, you know, when you actually need it, you pray that you need.

Right, yeah, it’s only, it’s only there or what was the terminology something like it’s only good when you need it, type of thing or Yeah, yeah.

So I mean, you know if that’s the exact same thing has happened a few times that we lost a project to a client and then a week before the opening, they’re like, oh the landlord needed insurance and our master business license they do this so a member of some association and me like do you have and I was like Yeah, can you send it to me it’s like yep so here you go. Okay. Can you do the job and I was like, well I gotta let you know because obviously I was looking at other after other projects right well yeah because yeah, the low contractor didn’t have like they might have had a $2 million insurance not five, right, like, like little things like that like people kind of cut corners on and stuff right so I mean it’s unfortunate, but I think there’s got to be some place that can educate clients more because, you know, I think that they don’t know,

I always say that it’s, they don’t know what they don’t know. Yeah, yeah, and a lot of it’s not ignorance, it’s not. It’s just they don’t know like if they haven’t been through the situation or, you know, or somebody hasn’t done a renovation in a while, or, you know like they just, sometimes they really just don’t know what they don’t know and they don’t know the cause, so they don’t understand the process and why things need to be done in a certain way and, yeah,

so it’s a 100% with even even little things like, Oh, well, why are you charging me a markup on materials like when I was doing residential, and I was like, Well, do I have to give you specs, and then, like when a designer wasn’t involved like do I have to give you specs for you to approve and how many rounds is that going to be. Then, when we have to buy it, like, do I have to come up with the square footage, do I have to buy it, do I have to pick it up.

Right. You don’t have somebody do your accounting in your book,

do I have to offload it. Do I like what I look at all the steps involved just to get one piece of material. Yeah, right. And, you know, and then I asked him that I was like, listen, like you can do it if you want to just bring it on site, and I’ll do when I first started, that’s what I did you bring it on set, I’ll do it. No problem, like no no it’s easier going through yours like the price. Yeah that’s right, right, right this way or this way or this way, one or the other. Yeah,

yeah, yeah and it’s better, you know, knowing from, from experience is better than the contractor does it because again the clients would be like, Oh, I didn’t realize you needed the Ruffins or, you know, because you’re just at framing I didn’t think you needed the plumbing yet you’re like the that now, you know like, exactly, again, they don’t know what they don’t know.

Right, so don’t know what they don’t know. That’s right, that’s right completely agree.

Who are your what like I know you said that you were, I guess you’re doing more commercial work now,

what Yeah,

who are your typical clients I know you’ve done some restaurants. Yeah,

I mean, a couple years ago I think 2019 We kind of made the decision, I used to work with my wife, you know, so we decided not to work together anymore. No, only because we had our first child, a few years ago and, you know, we kind of said, You know what, in the interest of like having a family life. Yeah, let’s try and separate something plus we were both so that sometimes we forget, we talked about earlier just spend time with each other, but we kind of decided that, you know, commercial was the way to go, it’s actually more my passion, shall we say, on the commercial side, as our IP I, I feel like most commercial clients sometimes like the big world but more chances, and I also like the structure around

commercial. Yeah,

there’s a little bit more structure in the drawings, a little bit more structure in the process to which I quite enjoy.

And to be honest there’s less, I think, emotions around the finances

100% Obviously with the independent businesses there are some emotions, but they can still look at things at the lens of a business right yeah like money in money out if I add this. Now, when will I be able to recoup that money right as from a business person. Yeah, exactly. They can, they can look at things more tangibly, and so you know is this actually a value add, or is it like this is a fun thing to have, which we do in our, in our residential lives. So there’s so many times, right, yeah, yeah so so we switch over to commercial completely our predominant like area is restaurants as you mentioned that do a lot of quick serve restaurants Domino’s that sort of stuff. We’ve done a lot of red lobsters, even though they’re not building new, you know, we get a lot of facility management for them, like maintenance, I should say, Yeah, we also did a lot of universal washroom additions they needed the new code compliant washrooms, which is challenging to say the least, because obviously I want to keep the restaurants open and you know to Washington still always have to be open and then trying to figure out how we shouldn’t cut seating as well.

Exactly where they try a new generating party,

and then still get your pop up like it’s been you know so having a good team, we’ve had some really good teams on that right from, you know, the, the designer, the interior designer to the clients like they were, you know, it was pretty fantastic and, you know, we’ve been doing sit down restaurants and, but that that’s probably I would say 70 80%, we’ve done a few offices to not not quite as many but we’ve done another few offices and I kind of liked them too because they’re more design, build, which, which is which is a little more fun you can give options and styles and stuff. And then we’ve done a couple of retail retail spaces, which is always challenging trying to work in a shopping mall at times you know there’s always noise restrictions and, yeah, you know, but, you know, construction right back if you’re either building new or you’re renovating right one or the other. Yes, your options.

Yeah, and I guess yeah retail for sure would have been more of a challenge because you know, you can’t be disrupting business. So you’re going in after hours and yeah,

that’s right. And so, yeah, it’s not as easy because, you know, people always think that, oh you know I’m just laying tile, it’s not gonna be noisy I’m like yeah but then you have to cut the tile at some point,

I was gonna say what you

want to cut that one tile

noise the dust the

yep completely, completely. Yeah, it’s not.

No it’s not, not an easy one for sure and I can imagine even just staffing like that from a trade standpoint, of trying to get those coming in after hours and non regular and

yeah that’s a bit of a challenge. Yeah, I mean you know the commercial side, I said I like the process of things but you know there’s certain ambiguous notes and some of the specification manuals that that drives me up the wall, you know, it’s like, you can, you know you can work in doing daytime hours, but if someone complains, you got to stop, like how do you, you know what I mean like how do you price something like it’s but it but that’s been the case for a while and we kind of we kind of have figured out a happy medium with that I feel just generally with contractors.

Yeah, yeah, I

think you go into knowing production, you know, the chances are we are going after work after hours, and if we don’t, it’s a bonus kind of a bonus for us you

got completely.


So you mentioned that you developed a simple yet unique approach to projects, can you expand you know expand.

I mean, that that’s also kind of evolved with time shall we say, and I really started focusing on when I was doing residential and trademark and all of this stuff and it was essentially was like a simple five step process. Oh really, that I call the stress free revenue solution. Okay, which is basically, it was just meant to serve as a guide clients prospective clients to help them understand the process that like the full gambit of a construction project right so you know and I created all these fun names for each one so they easy to remember, you know, it was, you know, started out with the design advantage, right. Most times, like they love to send Pinterest photos through contractor thinking they can build it from Pinterest photos were not geared that way. Generally I’m not saying no, I’m not saying not all contractors of use some do have that flair, you know, I mean that they can kind of see something and build it, but most contractors, you know, they don’t know putting two swatches together, how they like how what the end result is going to be right. They’re good at what they do kind of thing, right. So, basically the design advantage, a little blurb about how important you know that, that portion is the second one was called the budget Maximizer which is essentially, you know, they might have their budget, but you know we all love marble floors and we all love the you know the high end clawfoot tub and stuff, but once they start seeing those prices, they’re like you know what maybe we don’t need the Lambo, maybe I need you know something. And so, but that was really just created because what I found is, you know, we all want the nice things right, but what we want to do is kind of show them that there are alternatives, but we also have to understand how brutal a product might be, you know, how often they might have to change it, what’s the customer service like with, with a certain product you might be paying a little bit more, but you know how long is it actually going to last, right like little things like that. Oh

yeah, like the marble floor, no.

That’s what I mean right so you know just going, because there are pros and cons to every product right so just going through that to see what fits with their budget. What do they want to sacrifice on whatever they want to splurge on, that’s, that’s the best way to go. Yeah, I remember because now that I’m not in residential it’s been it’s been a little while. Yes, a budget Maximizer then we had the rental process, which is obviously we talked about weekly meetings photos every week. Construction status that sort of stuff. Yeah, then it was the punch list I referred to earlier. Much of the soul, you know, so they know at the end of the project I tell them all the time you know we’re humans doing the job 3d printing is not there yet. You know for stuff like this. So you know humans doing the job and, you know, I always tell them to take two weeks to use it first before we come back in to fix anything because they’ll notice things you know sometimes because of what you’re looking at a wall, you might not notice a little bit, or you might not notice a certain grout line has not been full, it happens. So we still come up with this we’ll fix it, we’ll do it. And the last one was called the lasting experience, which is essentially a warranty system, right, like we give them a two we gave them a two year warranty, just so they know that we’re here to make sure it lasts, and people will last for longer and we said unfortunately we can’t do longer because it all depends on where until even two years of stretching it is pretty

generous Yeah,

yeah we, I mean, like I said we an idea is we don’t have to go back, we do it right the first time, that’s that’s the whole idea. Yeah, but that kind of evolved into like the fundamental of that whole thing was, what I call our three C’s, which is clarity, collaboration, and craftsmanship I’ve kind of referred to it, right throughout this conversation right. Yeah, that’s really the crux of the whole company crux of who I am right, I try to be as clear as I can as transparent through the process through the project so just scheduling through everything, collaboration, I think people talk about it a lot but what I’ve noticed is that it’s really important to be able to communicate not just with your trades but where your client and you know consultant team and openly and honestly because once you figure out what the shared vision is forever for each party. You can collaborate so much easier to figure out, even lower in cost value engineering you know different products might be a little bit more expensive but it’ll last time so much longer and having just an understanding that shared vision is, is I think key in order to collaborate properly, right,

for sure. I always say with any types of these projects, you know, I, coming from the design perspective, and you from the construction, I mean, my vision, and to being able to then say okay, I want to do it like this, is it going to work the way that I think it’s going to work, is there a better way to do it, how like, it’s all that kind of stuff because you’re the expert in that area I just have an idea but I don’t I’m not the person that’s on site and understands, you know some of the engineering and materials or so, as designers we know a little bit about a whole bunch of things, and we don’t have to go to the people that are the experts in that

and let someone for my role as a construction manager or general contractor we know how all the pieces fit together. We know generally what the code is and what’s right and what’s wrong. We rely on some of our trades to ensure that not just if it’s possible. Yeah, but if it’s gonna last as well if it’s the right way of doing it because we can always just put peel and stick it off. But is that the right way, what if in five seven years they wanted to rebrand, you know, is there a way we can fasten it differently, so that now we don’t have to rip out the drywall and you don’t I mean like these conversations are important, especially in the commercial space when you know you kind of want to redo things every now and then to refresh the look refresh the feel of everything right. And the last one craftsmanship, I mean that. I think that goes without saying we aim to try and not cut any corners, we all know drawings don’t have every single detail there so people can get pretty creative at times. So, you know, we really tried to showcase a proper finish, you know, a showcase, you know, how we end up doing it with our team, right from the initial shop drying process right through the quality control and fixing up the punch list items, because you know the quality isn’t there, it’s kind of done.

Well, there’s both sides of it your your reputation, obviously, is in there for, you know, future business, whatever, but then also the fact that, who are they coming back to you when things do go wrong. So you need to, I mean, I just, you got to do it right from the beginning, because, you know, it’s just so it’s so obviously important why you have to do that. That’s right,

completely, completely agree. Yeah, so, so it kind of, kind of gone back to that initially the whole company was started on that, that those three concepts that I didn’t, I didn’t really formulate at the time it was just stuff that I always did. Yes, and then it kind of evolved with time into like just how do I relay this message that simple and easy for clients and stuff, and everybody to understand.

Yeah, yeah, and it’s true it’s a it’s, it’s something that you do, it’s an intangible, but then you’re like, I got to put it into some form of a word or some way to to express

it because everyone else, how do you separate yourself from another contract right it’s easiest question how do you separate yourself.

Yeah, yeah, what’s your differentiator. Well, you know,

there’s a million of you

guys out there and that’s right. Why would I trust my money with you. Exactly, exactly,

exactly. Yeah,

I get it, I get it, it’s and the ones that are good, continue to stay, you know, they never do have to really worry about business, it’s because their reputation, their quality there, you know, to me it’s all about integrity as well. And then, I’m on that point, how do you find business, how do you do market do you are you a lot of

referral based,

you know what, for the, for the longest time, we’re always referral based very fortunate to be referral based, but I found that can only grow to a certain point, and referral basis, but I always struggled with, you know, hiring a marketing company because lord knows I’ve spent so much money like on the website and updating and since it’s not my we’ve talked about areas of expertise yeah not my area of expertise. Every time I look at somebody new, they’re like, Oh, your last guy did all of this wrong and it’s so jaded right yeah I guess yeah you know. So what you really got to do so. I mean, you know they’re different things we’re trying, you know over the years we started doing videos called behind the space videos of my projects and get our clients involved and consultants involved to be like, Okay. What was the thought process was, you know, how’s the construction style and kind of put it out there so people can have like a simple idea and see the work that was done understand the process from other clients almost like, like recommendations but then talking about us so you can put a face to the name people can reach out to them so we’ve done that, a little bit. I’d be lying to say the podcast hasn’t helped as well in people reaching out because now they know they hear my voice a little bit more than, you know, hopefully they hear some of the passion that comes out of that, get to know you get to know me, right, get to know me a little bit so you know, little things like that, you know, one thing I hope is once work gets back I don’t lose some of the strain because aside from the marketing side, I do enjoy a lot.

Yeah. Yeah, no

it’s I think it’s

such a especially contracting is, I think, too. There’s so much trust in the referral part of it that, you know, just to, you know, when he says to look you up in the phone button a bit a bit more but do you know, a search a Google search on you know contractor near me or you know, I think it’s such a, you know, somebody’s got to know like and trust you to want to work with you and so that, oh, Jim sends you okay well I trust Jim and Jim trusts you so there’s that mutual me Jim and Jim

has done work so I can go see it. Yeah, yeah. And what the process was like right, I mean in the commercial world, I mean you’re talking like most times, you know, something most times 10 times more than, right, for the bathroom right like it’s you’re committing 100,000 150,000 Sometimes, you know,

oh easily yeah

I got the bullet right yeah so I think that’s, I think that that’s something that’s always going to be a struggle until you’ve kind of made Your name in the business, I find, and as a company.

Do you use do you do much marketing on LinkedIn because you are kind of a b2b type of

yeah you know we’ve done so, you know, I’ve got all for Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and it’s it’s funny it’s it’s so interesting because I follow a few of the contractors and stuff in the residential space as well and they get so many hits on Instagram, so many hits. Yeah, I get so many hits on LinkedIn, and I probably like if I get if I get 200 likes on a video something that I’ve posted on LinkedIn, maybe get five on Instagram. Yeah,

yeah, no I hear yeah I know what you’re saying, yeah,

yeah, it’s like a completely diff so I don’t

think Instagram makes sense for business to business type of business. Yeah, I

mean, I guess you’re right. But I don’t always, you know somebody posted the other day and I actually do agree with it, I think, I think nowadays the whole concept of b2b b2c is kind of lost a little bit, not lost. I think the concept is dated. I think now it’s more like HTH human to human. So, so the thing with Instagram I think is you have to figure out what the right tags are, because what you’re posting can also go on people’s personal feed, right, because now the people that are on Instagram, they’re individuals right they’re not gonna like they’re not going to be going on that company’s Instagram, and then checking out what they’re following, so it’s yeah it’s really like kind of almost doing the market research as to who are the decision makers, right,

and where are they

and where are they and what are the interests that are similar to that work that they’re kind of doing in their personal life. I know it sounds so sneaky right like China

does and it doesn’t because it’s but it’s the core of the marketing and the strategy is saying okay like you know me when you look at it just to my point of being the superficial, okay well it’s just personal, you know, it’s, it’s, I think of Instagram as more of a personal space. But you’re exactly right. The people that are there, they’re people, they’re humans. They’re there as well. But yeah, trying to figure out what they like,

that sort of thing at the end of the day the human to human marketing side, we talked about how do you sell yourself right by. And you’re talking about referrals. If you don’t have referrals. You know when you have that first meeting if it’s done well or not it has nothing to do with your proposal. Now, it’s like an interview, it’s like how do you present yourself, how do you present the company, you know, like they do come across trustworthy you come across somebody with integrity, like you mentioned earlier, and will this person let me down, or if, if, if stuff goes down, will he step up or she step up, you know what I mean like most of the questions they ask whether it’s b2b or b2c

Yeah, I always say it’s theirs. You don’t know how good of a supplier trade, whatever you have until something goes wrong, right, how do they handle that.

Yep, completely, completely agreed. Yeah, completely agree with you. So that’s what I think is as far as as far as that’s concerned, like the marketing side, I think it’s more human to human what concepts gonna resonate,

are you trademarked that are you are you aged age

no I think I’ve seen it online, a fair bit

cuz I was gonna I was gonna give you full credit.

I won’t take full credit for that. Okay, well you could have had. I will take full credit and executing interior designers visions but that’s about it.

Fair enough. All right, well let’s, we could probably chat well we’re gonna, we’re gonna have another part to this. Rahul is podcast but for the rest of mine, we’re gonna do what I have is my interior Inquisition, and this is where you can answer regarding life business whatever but firstly what is one thing that you think every person should experience in their lives. Oh, that’s,

that’s a really good question. You know what, I will definitely say and I hope people are doing that, or have figured out a way to do that during this pandemic, with the various lockdowns and stuff, is try and find balance within yourself. Don’t let external issues items bother you because no matter when or where your hand your life, there’s always something else out there, it could be, you know, government stuff government rules, it could be your uncle or your mom said something. Yeah, that can affect you, but always try and find the balance within you, because at the end of the day, you’re with yourself and your own thoughts all the time so if you don’t find that balance within you, you know, other people will affect you all the time.

Yeah, very true, very, very true. What’s the wisest thing that you’ve ever heard someone say, keep quiet and listen.

That’s true, yeah I mean I, like I said I think I mentioned earlier, I’m I’m a bit of a talker, but, but I think, honestly, I think it’s my wife, to be honest with you, she, I marvel at her capability of truly listening, you know, you, you can have conversations with people and they listen, they hear you, they hear you, you know, they know even though they listen but she, she will remember a conversation from four years ago, that meant something to somebody else. I mean like yeah, she might not remember it over the four years but in conversation with that person she it’ll come back up. Yeah, that is something that I think, you know, I wish I had, you know, sometimes I feel more my mind works more transactionally Yeah, information will come in and I’m like, that really doesn’t matter to me. Yeah, exactly. Trash, but she has this natural ability to, you know, communicate and listen to people that I just marvel at, it’s really something to see.

That’s great. That’s wonderful. Now what are three podcasts that you’re listening to.

Oh, more or less listen more or less, aside from my own.

I might, yeah. You know

what they kind of they kind of move around a fair bit, yeah. A lot of them are in the in the construction space though, there’s the Contact Crew as one. Currently I listen to I listen to the Construction Record as well. It’s local one here in Canada. I daily commercial news one, I think those, those are really the two I mainly listen to. There’s a couple others. The second is a podcast is pretty phenomenal. They talk a lot about stuff that happens on the project site so that adds a different dynamic the stuff that I generally talk about it’s kind of interesting construction records awesome too. They talk a lot, a lot more about you know, current events and what’s happening and stuff which is, which is again, they’re all like add different different fields and different, different stuff to it. Yeah, yeah. I don’t remember them but I used to listen to a lot of business podcast business owner myself sometimes. I tend to get stuck in my own ways.

Yeah, so it’s

good to hear somebody else’s personal yeah somebody else’s and then you know it gives you an idea of how you can implement your own. Absolutely, so I used to listen to a lot, not so much anymore. Yeah, Just because, I mean, we’re talking about 24 hours and it’s not like I’m driving all the time, you know,

I find I’m not listening anymore and I said to my husband, this morning I said, I haven’t actually been out of the house in the last two days,

I haven’t been outside.

Yeah, ridiculous.

Yeah. Yeah, so it’s

no I find the podcasts I think there’s different stages of life that you need different types of podcasts, right. You need something you’re going through some sort of whatever you’re like I need advice or information on that so that’s why you listen to them so I have a whole slew of different things depending what, What, what time of the of the lifetime I didn’t. Yeah, well this is great so if people want to find you. What is the best way to, to

follow you on social media.

Yeah I mean LinkedIn Instagrams their, you know, One Oak Construction Build Your Future both of them on Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, obviously personally I’m on LinkedIn as well as the other ones do but I try to keep that more personal than professional, shall we say, but you know we have a current website right now that you can find out all of our episodes it’s rebelforce.com/podcast but you know we are building a custom website, Due to popular demand, where you can kind of search through you know, teams can be sustainability operations technology, and I’m hoping that goes live in a couple of weeks so I’m pretty excited for that it sounds. Yeah, next week, which is kind of cool.